I thought it could be a great idea to have a new thread where everyone could share their opinions on university applications (US but also Canada, UK, Netherlands…).
Actually, it is especially for anyone struggling with their admissions and doesn’t really know where to apply or what are the chances.
So I am a French student in my senior year: French Baccalaureate with OIB option (that’s a high school diploma with international option - more English literature and both History and Geography/Geopolitics are taught in English). My two majors (spécialités) are Mathematics and Economics and Social Sciences. I am also studying Further Mathematics.
I’d say I am top of the class with mainly 17/20 and 18/20 - I know it sounds bad for American students but these grades are amazing in the French system. My transcripts have been translated into the American grading system and my GPA is a 5.0+ out of 5.
Also, I get involved in quite a few clubs, in particular, Model United Nations and some volunteering. However, extracurriculars are not a big thing in France as we don’t have that much time to get involved in many societies: I have like 37 hours of classes per week!
Concerning my English level, I am (almost) bilingual and have scored 8.0 at the IELTS.
I want to study Economics at first to reach a good understanding of mathematics but I will probably want to do an MBA afterwards. I really wish to go to a top university and potentially have the chance to go to an Ivy League or other top uni for my Master degree.
In terms of university applications, I have already applied to a few.
In the UK - 5 choices:
Oxford University (got rejected)
London School of Economics - LSE (haven’t heard from them yet)
University College London - UCL (haven’t heard from them yet)
University of Warwick (haven’t heard from them yet)
University of Exeter (they have sent an offer and In will easily get those grades!)
In Canada:
McGill University - Desautels Faculty of Management and Faculty of Arts (haven’t heard from them yet)
In the Netherlands, I will be applying to the University of Amsterdam and Erasmus University of Rotterdam.
And finally, I am considering the US. I have started by Common App essay and Yale’s supplemental essays.
So there come my questions, and it would be amazing if anyone could give some answers
If I had to apply to any top American college, which one would you advise?
Should I apply to the University of Toronto? It looks like it is better than McGill, especially in Economics…
Does McGill have a good reputation in the US overall? In Economics and Business?
What about LSE, UCL and Warwick? What’s their reputation in the US? Do you think I could get into like Harvard, Princeton or Stanford after doing my undergraduate at any of these? (I know I’m aiming high haha)
To be honest, I really want to go to one of the best universities, no matter how much work I’ll have to do when I go there. I am quite confused with the way McGill has been dropping in the ranking over the last few years…
Basically, how many students from these universities go to UPenn, Harvard, Yale and others after they graduate??
I know it is really complicated to give a precise answer to any of these questions but it’ll be awesome if anyone could give me some pieces of advice as I don’t know how foreign universities are regarded in the US.
By the way, as I forgot to mention it previously, finance is not a problem so don’t bother considering the cost of an American college (compared to McGill or the UK).
I am struggling to understand this sentence. If you want a good understanding of mathematics, why not study…math? Or, do you mean that you are interested in the quantitative aspects of economics?
Well, nobody has to apply to any US college! By “top” do you mean “internationally famous name”, aka Harvard / Yale / Princeton / Stanford / UChicago? The acceptance rates for international students are a small fraction of the acceptance rates for domestic students at all US universities. At the most selective level, where overall acceptance rates are under 10%, you are looking at seriously small odds. Harvard currently has 7 undergrads (total) from France, so perhaps 1-2 students/year? Are you that level of outstanding relative to the other French students who will be applying?
When you ask about the reputation of Canadian and UK unis in the US: the answer depends who you are asking and why. Ask the typical person on the street, and they probably won’t have heard of the most of the unis you list. On the other hand, grad schools admissions teams will know all of them. The top MBA programs in the US will expect a minimum of 2 years work experience; based on the current crop of Harvard MBA students, it looks like 3-5 years is typical. The name of your undergraduate university is not irrelevant (and the range of names that are seen as strong is broader than you might think) but what you do in the intervening years is highly relevant.
For an MBA? Nearly impossible to say- and really not a relevant question for you. It’s impossible to know how many even want to go, much less how many apply. Even if the data was available, it would be difficult to extrapolate the meaning for you, not just because the sample sizes would be small, but because of the work interval between college and grad school introduces an enormous variable that is impossible to quantify.
First of all, thank you so much for giving a detailed answer, it really helps!
Well, what I meant was that I was probably going to study Business at some point but Economics is interesting for its more mathematical point of view. I feel like it is really useful to understand mathematics in the economic field to be good in Business.
I know Harvard, Yale, Princeton and others are highly selective and I will probably get rejected from all of them… since I don’t have much time left to prepare my applications I’d like to apply to 2/3 where I might get in (in comparison to the ‘impossible’ ones). I was thinking of NYU maybe, it looks really good and the acceptance rate is almost 20% if I’m right?
I don’t think I have an outstanding level so Harvard is not a good idea then. Thank you for letting me know.
Again, thank you for taking the time to answer! Then, is McGill highly regarded by American employers? I mean, is it seen as being a good university?
I didn’t really know how to formulate that question and it’s true that it isn’t relevant for me at the moment.
Also, sorry if my level of English isn’t really good, it’s not my first language.
NYU is about 16% these days, but they do have a higher than average number of international students- about 20% of the incoming class, and yes I think it is a reasonable option for you
Do you already have the right to work in the US? if not, the question is entirely hypothetical: there is no shortage of newly-minted Econ grads in the US, so getting a work visa straight out of undergrad is unlikely.
Since you don’t have national level extracurriculars or haven’t made a huge impact where you live, your odds of being among the handful of French kids admitted to Yale, Harvard, Princeton, MIT, etc. are almost nil. As you recognized yourself, you’re starting a bit late when it comes to EC’s, essays, etc.
That’s okay, there are LOTS of prestigious universities in the US - unfortunately they’re also very hard to get into but
I’d say your odds for an optimal combination of very strong math/econ programs and a non-zero shot at admissions would be:
UMich LSA Econ/Math and either LSA Honors (highly selective, deadline may be past) or Residential College (quirky but interesting community and a good way to form solid bonds if not in Honors, look into it)
Williams (“Little Ivy”, highly selective, except that unlike Harvard it is need aware meaning your being full pay will be a nudge in your favor + especially good for math + very, very strong network)
Bowdoin (NESCAC, same idea as above)
Northwestern, you can major in Economics and add a minor in Data Science, Statistics, or Business/Finance. Or you could stand out and apply for Economics/American studies, or Economics/History (because Economics is a much sought after major there and after all your HS background suggests American Studies or History wouldn’t be a stretch, and thus would be another little nudge for admissions.)
NYU, definitely, CAS (Economics/Math) or Stern (Econometrics&Quantitative Economics). Although Stern is more selective, based on your interests and background, that - Econometrics- the major I’d pick.
Northeastern (Honors), Data Science&Economics or Math&Econ; they have paid co-ops and professional experience/motivation is very strong there. Combined Majors | Undergraduate Admissions
WRT professional experience: Typically you’d get internships or a co-op, then an OPT (you’d be able to work for 27 months, after which either you start an MBA, a Master’s, or your employer jumps through the hoops to get you an H1B visa, which is currently literally a lottery but may change down the line.)
If money truly is no concern, then you could apply ED2 to one of the above that offers it, and RD for the others.
Wrt Canada: McGill, UToronto, and UBC are all topnotch, yearly variations in rankings are meaningless in that regard.
Look into Waterloo for Math/Econ, too, especially if a paid co-op would be of interest (likely useful if you plan on going for an MBA down the line).
Yes so it’s probably impossible to get accepted to any of these, I’m a good student but not extraordinary… I have already started my essays for Yale so I will give it a shot but I am not expecting much, to be honest
Haha I love how impossible it is to get into any American university!
Thank you so much for giving that many details!
I think I will apply to NYU - only one essay to write and New York is very international. + NYU has a higher acceptance rate than some of the others you’ve listed.
Then maybe Northwestern or UMich, both seem to be amazing! They are also top-notch in Economics, Business and Mathematics so that’s a big plus.
Well thank you for your answer, it helps a LOT!
Have a great day!
Hi! If you need help distinguishing between the Ivy’s (considered to be some of the top universities in the US), there’s a newsletter called IvyEyes that provides a free weekly roundup of top stories from each Ivy League newspaper. You could subscribe on their website (just search ivy eyes daily princetonian) and you get a curated newsletter in your inbox on Sundays!
Just adding that it’s not impossible to get into an American University, but any university/LAC in the top 40 (out of 3,700) requires careful preparation from the 10th grade on, or the 11th at the very latest.
Most flagship universities or LACs 40-125 would be 100%happy with you and, if you applied, would likely consider you for their Honors College.
While the colleges listed above would be reaches for all, you’d have a decent shot at Holy Cross, Trinity, UNiversity of the South, Whitman, Franklin&Marshall, or Union - and would get a superior education, too. Or, if you enjoy Football or Basketball, any of the Big 10, Michigan State, Villanova, Syracuse, UT (Austin), UF, Florida State…
BTW, do not discount Williams or Bowdoin - it’d be like an American dismissing Louis le Grand or St Louis.
Sorry for not getting back to you earlier but thank you so much for this detailed explanation!
Just to let you know, I have decided to apply to: Yale, Columbia, NYU, Duke, Cornell, and Dartmouth. I’ll see how it goes, perhaps I’ll get into at least one of these.
If I don’t, I will probably apply to MBAs in the US - I really want to study there at some point.
Thanks for helping
Do let us know your results.
I’m not sure you have a shot because these are “reach for everyone”, especially since you seemed to have “shotgunned” the T20, which means you don’t understand “fit” very well. You would likely have been more successful if you’d included some State Flagships and their Honors Colleges. But, what is done is done. Fingers crossed! And who knows, you may have a decent shot at NYU since they’ll primarily rely on your bac results and are need aware.
To explain more in detail how the admission process works: there are several “cuts”.
First cut pushes aside students who don’t have the grades to keep up with the depth and pace at the university.
After that, only excellent students remain.
At that point, adcoms look at the whole profile, not their grades (since these are already dealt with): their achievements (in Ecs), essays, recommendations, and institutional needs all come into play.
Some are clear admits: national science winners, concert musicians lauded for their Carnegia Hall performance, young people whose movement made a huge difference (think Malala Youfafzai, David Hogg). Keep in mind all of these are there because they made the first cut.
Then, the vast majority of applications.
You may be a first violist and they need an oboe player so the oboe player will be chosen, not you.
Or you may be a great debater but there are 145 among applicants this year so you’re just one of 145 and they only want 6.
Therefore, your odds are really unpredictable.
Perhaps you’ll get into a French Ecole that’ll let you study in the US as part of your degree?
In terms of MBA, your grades as an undergrad will matter less than how you proved yourself worthy in your first job (as a consultant, manager, engineer, or any career-track, entry-level job.) You’ll need concrete evidence of the positive impact you made in your company or department. In addition, they’ll look closely at your volunteering hours (commitment, achievements).
The expectation is about 2-3 years on the job and up to 5 for the most selective MBA’s (often longer for very selective but not most selective category). The average age for MBA’s is 28.
but