University of Chicago Admissions' statistics

<p>@xiggi: Not sure if you regard yourself as a misunderstood genius, who’s that much smarter than everyone else in the CC community, or if you just hate Chicago. Maybe it’s both. Regarding your first critique, it appears that your point is that analyzing EA v. RD admissions demonstrates that Chicago isn’t that selective, especially by comparison to MIT. For the Class of 2018, the EA admits/RD admits/desired class size for MIT were 612/807/1050. For Chicago, they were 1275 (est.)/1030 (est.)/1420. While you find an “obvious difference,” I’m not sure that it exists, or if it does, how one finds significant meaning in it. For one thing, Chicago’s target class size is 40 percent larger than MIT’s, so the raw numbers, without proportion, are not valid. Also, MIT admitted about 43 percent of its total in the early round, compared to 55 percent for Chicago. Indeed, the ratio of EA to RD admits may fairly be read to indicate that Chicago is becoming more, rather than less, popular–i.e. the school admitted students in the EA round that it expected to lose as cross-admits elsewhere, got surprised by how many EA admissions accepted, and then had to chop down the number of admissions in the RD round. That, of course, is speculation. But it’s at least a conclusion supported by some facts, rather than a claim too see a golden cipher in certain data that is invisible to the unwashed masses. The resort to history also seems unpersuasive as a determinative factor–there was a time that Stanford was a good, but not great university, and a safety school for college, with admissions rates nearly double those of HYP. Through leadership and vision, universities improve (the story of Frederick Terman as the Stanford Provost is instructive here). Chicago’s situation is a bit different, because the university from its founding has always been held in the highest regard, while the College has not. Chicago’s current leadership has a vision for how to change perceptions of the College, and we’ll have to wait and see regarding the results of their efforts. But, regardless, I think it’s appropriate to say that MIT and Chicago are both great schools, with a fantastic histories, and they each can be a wonderful choice for a certain type of talented student. Some would thrive more at one than the other, given their particular interests, but most would be well-served at either place. In the end, it’s all so much “sound and fury, signifying nothing” (and probably a good reason for me to step away from a debate that casts reason vs. vitriol). Chicago (albeit certainly not a fit for every talented applicant) is one of the planet’s genuinely elite schools. Recommend learning to embrace that fact.</p>

<p>Regarding your second critique, it seems that we are in agreement, no? Of course, my substandard perceptive powers may be causing me to miss something that’s “not that subtle.” SCEA has a preference premium over non-restrictive EA, as it is practiced by MIT and Chicago (which, in spite of fulminations to the contrary, have statistically similar practices). I would only amplify that with regard to non-restrictive EA, there is a cost beyond the “time and cost of the application.” Specifically, a Caltech/MIT/Chicago non-restrictive EA applicant faces the “opportunity cost” of not being able to apply to an SCEA school. Given that (1) the average EA admits at the non-restrictive EA schools have superior metrics (and thus may be SCEA-school material), and that (2) the SCEA early premium is significant, the cost of forgoing an SCEA application can be significant.</p>

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<p>I am not sure how to answer that line because I do not consider myself a genius let alone a misunderstood one. I do, however, consider myself very well-prepared and educated to discuss the precise issue of college admissions and their statistics. People who happen to know what I do in my professional life will surely understand why I think so. </p>

<p>As far as hating Chicago, that is also a canard. I have no special animosity towards the school, safe and except that I think that their officials have a tendency to shoot in their own foot. In the past, it was by clinging to erroneous tactics such as the uncommon application and its related obnoxious overtones. I also think I am correct in criticizing the lack of transparency of the admission representatives, including the one that represent the school on this forum. I find it puzzling that Grace cannot see the usefulness in sharing BASIC information in a timely manner. So, that is as much as hating Chicago goes. On the other hand, I have had nothing but tremendous respect for the rigor of the education provided. I always considered Chicago a wonderful school that in a way had image ruined by a misguided admission policy and a poor image that “pushed” great potential students to … look elsewhere in terms of applications and enrollment. I called it a tragedy, as well as correctly predicted that changes would come to redress the situation. </p>

<p>Now onto the continuous “misunderstanding” that becomes the rule versus the exception here:</p>

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<p>All of the above might be quite accurate, but it addresses a different viewpoint. Mine is simple: Chicago admits a number of students in its early pool that is similar or above its entire expected enrollment. You speak of proportions and so do I. If the expected enrollment is 1300 and the school sends 1300 admission packages in December …that is a ratio of 1! Now compare that to MIT or any other school that practices SCEA or ED! And do it for the past 3-4 years. How large was the ratio for the Class of 2016 at MIT and Chicago? </p>

<p>Does it mean that the practice is better or worse? Nope! It indicates a different system. And, isn’t that what I have been saying all along? Different as in hardly comparable? </p>

<p>@xiggi‌ I find it puzzling that you’re criticizing the lack of transparency in Chicago’s admissions and then criticizing, in the same paragraph, the school’s “misguided” admissions system as if you fully understand their intentions in using an uncommon application. </p>

<p>@xiggi, @JHS and others…very interesting thread and very useful discussions. The most interesting part stat that is relevant is still missing…i.e. how many of the deferred (EA) candidates get admitted in March? If this number is available and it is “almost none” then a point can be made that the adding EA deferrals to the RD pool is just making the RD acceptance rates artificially low. On the other hand, if EA deferrals do get admitted at the same percentage as the (new) RD applicants, then RD acceptance is truly low, i.e 4%. The latter also implies that applying EA significantly improves your acceptance rate (assuming you are in the running). </p>

<p>Do other EA colleges provide this number, say Georgetown or BC?</p>

<p>@calipapa the deferred EA acceptance rate for c/o 2018 was 3%!</p>

<p>@neontissues Could you provide a source for that number? </p>

<p>I’ve now had over 30 emails from University of Chicago. As well as letters. I even received a letter virutally invitating me to claim that I couldn’t afford the application fee so I would ask for a fee waiver. It is actually slightly embarrassing. All Chicago is doing is trying to drive up its application numbers so that it can look more competitive. That’s tragic. Chicago had just as bright applicants 20 years ago, when it admitted 40%, than it does today. It used to be largely “self selecting”. Now, it is one huge marketing machine.</p>

<p>The level of insecurity of this page is incredible. You don’t find students from Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Oxford or Cambridge posting things about how competitive their universities are. Chicago students and administrators seem to feel the need to prove something. I frankly wouldn’t want to go anywhere that evidences such profound insecurity. Bizarre. I thought Chicagoans were more secure than this.</p>

<p>What can I say; Jay Cutler has us rattled.</p>

<p>@somebody2015‌ it was either dean nondorf or president zimmer at the second prospective students overnight in april of this year </p>

<p>@neontissues “Our deferral list is not ranked, and historically about 10% of deferred students are admitted in the Regular Decision pool.” <a href=“UChicago College Admissions”>http://uchicagoadmissions.■■■■■■■■■■/post/70419119607/class-of-2018-early-action-decisions-released&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>Watch this celebration from an admitted student to Chicago! It’s amazing!
<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube;

<p>@somebody2015 “historically” is not the same as actual data – a 10% deferred acceptance rate would be unreasonably high considering recent admissions statistics for RD and EA</p>

<p>@neontissues I don’t think so because high yield rates mean a focus on those who actually want to go, which tend to be EA applicants. Of course having access to recent data would be more informative. </p>

<p>@excanuck99‌ what is even sadder is that last year Chicago even decreased the number of students it admitted by more than 300 in order to keep its admission rate low because the # of applications fell…this shows tremendous insecurity and lack of integrity…</p>

<p>@Penn95‌ That doesn’t make sense. They lowered the admitted # because their yield was increasing and they didn’t want to overadmit; they overadmitted by over a hundred students previously. That creates issues for housing. How does that show insecurity and lack of integrity?</p>

<p>@sa0209‌ “their yield was increasing”. I am sure that’s how they framed it after seeing the lower number of applications during RD. The yield rate for the class of 2017 was around 53% and according to an article of the Chicago maroon that yield rate for the class of 2018 should be 62% in order to have the same number of students enrolled in the class of 2018. How can a school possibly be expecting an almost 10 percentage point rise in yield from one year to another? This is a 17% increase. it is not realistic. Also of course there is the wait list to fall back on so even if the yield didn’t rise by as much, they could have admitted heavily from the waitlist which doesn’t affect the acceptance rate for us news rankings. Of course we can’t be sure because Chicago has yet to reveal official statistics for the class of 2018 but I can’t help but be skeptical. I think it shows insecurity because it shows that Chicago will do anything to rise in the rankings. Also it shows lack of integrity because it refused acceptance to over 300 qualified candidates just to keep itself competitive for the rankings. </p>

<p>Chicago is a great school but it’s turning into a marketing machine that will do anything to rise in the rankings. I mean every top school that is not Stanford,Harvard or Princeton has a some level of insecurity and tries to raise its profile but at least most draw a line somewhere and retain some integrity. Inviting ppl to claim application fee waivers when they don’t need it, sending hundreds and hundreds of unsolicited emails, lowering number of acceptances just because the number of applications went down, all these show Chicago is trying way too hard and it is kind of embarrassing for the school image. ( disclaimer i don’t mean to bash Chicago, I rly like the school, my parents are alums and even tho I ended up choosing Penn, it was in my top five choices. However I have to call it the way I see it…)</p>

<p>@penn95, do you realize that UChicago is currently ranked #4, behind Harvard, Yale and Princeton, but tied with Columbia and Stanford in the USN ranking you are referring to? Not much room for improvement! I’m not sure your logic holds up.</p>

<p>@penn95 I mentioned the yield because yield is one of the statistics that colleges can’t control. Yield is a reflection of the students’ selections. While it might have been surprising to see a 10% increase in yield, it’s not like UChicago had any control over that. It just happened based on what the students chose. And that 62% wasn’t an overconfident/false estimation; the official number is 60%.</p>

<p>No school would simply lower the acceptance rate if they didn’t have the statistics to back it up. Otherwise they would have a tiny incoming class.</p>

<p>I guess I was trying to say that UChicago isn’t doing wrong by “refusing acceptance to 300 qualified candidates” as you say. In the end, using their yield projections, they will still have roughly the same incoming class size as other years (around 1450). It’s not like they’re shrinking the class size just to have a low acceptance rate.</p>