University of Michigan - my opinion

Parents Forum
1

<p>Just wanted to get my observation and opinion on here for those who are interested. My son is going into his last year at U of M as an out of state student. Thankfully this will be the last time I have to absorb the out-of-state tuition increase - this time it is 7% and tuition alone has topped $30k. The out-of-state tuition is about three times the in-state rate and I am tired of being taken advantage of. Thats besides outrageous rent of over $600/month for a room in a house and no on-street parking. From his experience - most undergraduate courses have been taught by graduate instructors, many of whom cannot speak English well, if at all. Only in upper level courses and the highly regarded business school has he had classes actually taught be professors. Even then many times exams were graded by graduate students, sometimes with errors made. Ann Arbor is a great town and the Big House is a blast but I don't think its worth the price considering the alternatives. </p>

<p>For our second time around, with our daughter, I am going to push for the private college route. I would rather pay the same or more to a private institution (preferably a smaller one) than be subsidizing another state's in-state students. Of course, my first choice would be for her to attend Penn State - our own state university but I don't think I would win that battle - she's certain that there will be too many kids from her own high school.</p>

2

<p>I agree that UM and Cal Berkely are remarkably high priced for out of state full payers. They could have an even larger choice of students if their tuition were more inline with other state schools.</p>

<p>Virginia is a true steal with their tuition at the same level roughly as PSU's out of state. The problem there is getting admitted. </p>

<p>However, it's not clear to me that you're better off at Lafayette, Lehigh, or Bucknell (for instance) at similar prices.</p>

3

<p>Although my son chose to attend Pitt, we would have been very happy for him to attent Penn State, too. I know PA tuition is high, but these schools are still a bargain compared to privates or state schools with non-resident status.</p>

4

<p>My son (a rising HS junior) is at UM right now for a summer program and is impressed with the university. So this is a discouraging post. But I guess you can't argue with vivez' facts: if the out-of-state tuition is now over 30K (ouch) and grad students are teaching most courses, it takes the lustre off the school as a "top public." </p>

<p>The business school is worth the money, maybe?</p>

<p>And what's The Big House, btw?</p>

5

<p>The $37,000 cost was the deciding factor for my D not choosing UM this year, (and going instead with a more expensive private school.) No matter how good a public school is, you are still dealing with a lot of issues including size of classes, registration issues, and the aggravation of having 65% of the students paying 1/3 what you are paying. :(</p>

6

<p>I believe that you as out of state are not subsidizing in-state, but rather --you are paying what the college costs (more or less) and that the state (through taxes,etc) is subsidizong the in-state students. This would be true in my state, texas,... but dont claim to know the details at UM</p>

<p>The comment about getting a larger choice of students is -IMHO is not generally the goal of a State U. They are primarily to eduacte the populous of a state-and thus provide a 'subsidized' education for the citizenry (not saying they always achieve this goal) ... I know I was stunned to find that barely 10% of UC_Berkley were out of state. This was true of most State U...except the likes fo Purdue--probably alot of Illinois residents etc</p>

7

<p>My son is also at U Mich right now for a summer camp. (Roscoe - What camp is your kid at? Mine is at CAEN.) I was sort of surprised at how "state school-ish" the place felt. Of course, I'm seeing it through the eyes of a potential out-of-state student. Having just gone the LAC route with my eldest, it is hard to look at these huge universities and picture paying that kind of money for a place where TEACHING may not be the main focus. Seeing as how this son wants to go into electrical engineering though, this search will probably be full of schools that I think look too big!</p>

8

<p>Roscoe, the Big House is the Stadium's nickname.</p>

<p>I have great memories of my days at UM, and what I told my kids was that if they got into Honors, then the price was more than worth it, but otherwise, possibly not. There are a number of learning communities which also shrink the college (and class sizes). Both did get accepted into Honors, and both ended up elsewhere, but were seriously considering it. I think the small programs make it very do-able (and the school has a zillion positives). If you're not in one, though, it gets more problematic.</p>

9

<p>"From his experience - most undergraduate courses have been taught by graduate instructors, many of whom cannot speak English well, if at all."</p>

<p>I must say that I never found that to be the case in History and Political Science, once you got past the big intro survey courses.</p>

<p>In Philosophy, I was always taught by full professors, except for my Intro to Logic Course. One class was actually taught by the head of the Department. Also there was a philosphy library in Angell Hall that was usually deserted.</p>

<p>Now, admittedly this was 30 years ago, but in my discussions with current students, I found similar experiences, at least in those three disciplines.</p>

<p>Also, I never had a problem with non-English speakers, although the math majors did complain about it.</p>

10

<p>That was my experience also. The only large classes were intro surveys, but they were taught by full professors. The discussion sections were led by TAs. All my English classes were small, and all were taught by profs. I haven't heard that this has changed that much.</p>

11

<p>I echo UMDAD on my experience (which was more [ugh] than 30 years ago). Certainly things can change over time, but in the engineering school I can only think of one instructor who was not a tenure-track professor. However, if true today at Michigan, they are not unique in terms of using TA's to teach class. My son is in engineering at Cornell and he has also had some TA-taught courses. His class sizes are also much larger than I had in engineering at Michigan (which also may have increased over the last 30+ years).</p>

<p>Michigan is a GREAT experience for some but certainly not one that one would choose because it is cheap or because it is small. However, if you are looking for a school with a very good academic reputation, in a great college town with a fabulous big-time sports program that will bond you with fellow alumni for life, Michigan is hard to beat.</p>

12

<p>(nitpick) It's a 6% increase, not a 7% increase.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I believe that you as out of state are not subsidizing in-state, but rather --you are paying what the college costs (more or less) and that the state (through taxes,etc) is subsidizing the in-state students.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, 15mbw is right.</p>

<p>U-M charges the equivalent of private-school tuition for students who do not live in Michigan, but that's been the case for some time now. That's steep, but it's no secret. I understand being glad to stop paying such a high tuition, and I regret that your son was miserable and couldn't transfer to someplace where your tuition dollars gave your family a better value. But I don't get the "taken advantage of" comment. In recent years (with one year's exception) nonresident tuition has gone up the same % as that of nonresident--or less. So it's been a pretty steady thing, with both populations sharing the pain. It implies ill-will on Michigan's part.</p>

13

<p>Vivezbelle didn't say that his/her S was miserable. Vivezbelle sounds a tad miserable to be paying so much for tuition and rent. The S has had a lot of TAs; some don't speak English well. That doesn't equal misery for the student.</p>

14

<p>That comment relates to the difference between Michigans out of state tuition and other schools rates, probably with an implicit comparison to the in-state rate at Penn State (where the student elected not to go). </p>

<p>Out of state rates</p>

<p>UMich </p>

<p><a href="http://www.finaid.umich.edu/Financial_Aid_Basics/cost.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.finaid.umich.edu/Financial_Aid_Basics/cost.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>$7374 romm+board
$27601 tuition</p>

<p>Maryland</p>

<p>$8000 room+board
$20,100 tuition</p>

<p>MSU
$ room+board varies
$25,934</p>

<p>PSU
$room and board est $7000
$23,020 tuition</p>

<p>Lehigh
$8500 room+board
$31,180 tuition</p>

<p>Bucknell
$6,700
$32,592</p>

<p>Rutgers
$8000
$13,828 tuition [I wonder if I am reading this correctly. This makes Rutgers quite a bargain for out of state students. Upon double checking, I think I read correctly!!!!!] If you live in Allentown, makes you wonder about sending your kid to Bucknell or Lehigh v Rutgers, I would say. Someone else double check this for me.</p>

<p>Virginia
$6350
$24,290 tuition</p>

<p>Berkeley
$? housing
$25,300 tuition+fees</p>

15

<p>Aren't Bucknell and Lehigh private schools?</p>

16

<p>Nonresident tuition & fees:</p>

<p>(2005 - 06)</p>

<p>University of Illinois $21,128</p>

<p>Purdue University $19,822</p>

<p>from (2004 - 05)</p>

<p>University of Michigan $25,840</p>

<p>University of Vermont $22,728</p>

<p>(Rice University $21,206) (private)</p>

<p>University of Virginia $21,172</p>

<p>University of Wisconsin $19,860</p>

<p>University of Pittsburgh $19,500</p>

<p>College of William and Mary $19,030</p>

<p>Miami University (OH) $18,236</p>

<p>Ohio State University $18,066</p>

<p>Indiana University $17,799</p>

<p>UCLA $16,956</p>

<p>University of California, Berkeley $16,956</p>

<p>Ohio University $16,734</p>

<p>University of North Carolina $16,303</p>

<p>Queen's University $15,282 [Canadian dollars]</p>

<p>James Madison University $14,420</p>

<p>McGill University $12,248 [Canadian dollars]</p>

<p>SUNY Geneseo $10,610</p>

<p>Of course, Room and Board charges vary and there may be some other fees not included here.</p>

17

<p>Does U of Michigan give merit scholarships to outstanding out of state students? Just idle curiousity, both my kids are done with the application process.</p>

18

<p>There are a few. My S was offered 15,000/yr. His sister, with slightly higher GPA, slightly lower SAT, was offered zilch.</p>

19

<p>
[quote]
Vivezbelle didn't say that his/her S was miserable.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You're right, I stand corrected.</p>

<p>I'm not arguing that Michigan's not expensive. It's plenty expensive, and no secret that they charge as much out-of-state as many private schools charge. It would be (and is!) a deterrent for some students and their families. But some students/families calculate that it's worth it for them. Everyone's got a different way of measuring value. </p>

<p>It's Michigan's "taking advantage of" comment that befuddled me. If it all comes down to the mistaken assumption about subsidies, that's incorrect (and already addressed, so never mind).</p>

20

<p>If you live in Allentown, makes you wonder about sending your kid to Bucknell or Lehigh v Rutgers...</p>

<p>I live very close to Allentown and my son attends Lehigh...I would much rather have him in PA and Bethlehem than in Newark, NJ. You have the tuition (31,800) right but DS's room and board is higher ($9700). Just personal preference, not knocking NJ. Lehigh doesn't have in-state/out of state rates...all the same.</p>