<p>i don't know about hong kong and japan because i never lived there but in korea, berkeley beats out michigan hands down. not that many people know about michigan anyway.
plus berkeley is not 50% asian. it's approximately 40%. just as a sidenote, ucla is about 33~35% asian, but the number of asians at ucla is greater than the number of asians at berkeley because ucla has a larger student body.</p>
<p>in korea, NYU beats everything lol i dont even know why..it's so funny</p>
<p>"i was born in hong kong and lived their for 12 years, then lived in japan for 3 years...so i think i know better, thank you for the doubt"</p>
<p>Talk to other Asians on these boards. I've read many a debate about Berkeley, and one of the constant arguments of pro-Berkeleyans is that Berkeley has international recognition, especially in Asia.</p>
<p>Berkeley and Michigan are neck-and-neck at social sciences; to say one is better than the other would be stupid.</p>
<p>"berkeley and michigan are sporting ugrad populations 2x the size of UVa"</p>
<p>No. UVa has ~20k; Berkeley, ~30k (usually hovers around that); Michigan, ~40k.</p>
<p>"Cal is gigantic...good luck having an undergraduate experience in that ocean."</p>
<p>I find that undergrad experience tends to be better when there are more students. Tell me, where will the social life be better: at a school with ~20k students (or 30k, or 40k if the university can take on that many), or a school with ~4,000? I would go for the 20k school any day -- much more full of life.</p>
<p>To the OP:</p>
<p>None of those is truly the "best" public. I'd say they're all comparable. But if you wanted to look at the components of the universities, then it's a little easier. Berkeley tends to be ranked higher in more of its programs; it seems to be a bit more difficult to get into than UMich; it's usually ranked the number one public (which doesn't really say it is, though); etc.</p>
<p>people tend to think berkeley is really hard to get in becoz of its low admit rate..but when you think about it, this admit rate has a lot of confounding variables. With one UC app, I can apply to 6 UCs, so many people put berkeley down, just for kicks. IT's not hard, if someone's goal was to apply to UCI, hey.. i have 5 blanks left, why dont i put berkeley down, maybe i will hit the jackpot. while for Umich and UVA you have to fill out a seperate application, 3 essays for mich, which is very annoying. You can see from last year's average gpa and SAT (yes the publics have gone up a lot in this area last year) they are comparable. On the other hand, UCs are very tight on OOS students. I think it's just becoz California has such a huge population for them to serve`</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
No. UVa has ~20k;
[/QUOTE]
The number is 13,353.</p>
<p>These are the mid 50% range of SATs for the 3 schools
Michigan
CR 610- 720
M 650 - 760
(<a href="http://www.admissions.umich.edu/fastfacts.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.admissions.umich.edu/fastfacts.html</a>)</p>
<p>Berkeley
CR 600-710
M 620- 720
From collegeboard</p>
<p>UVA
CR 600-710
M 620-720
college board</p>
<p>The collegeboard statistics might be one year old but i cant find UVA and berkeley's...see they are all similar despite the huge difference in admit rate. This is due to self-selectivity and convenience(or inconvenience) in applying, as i said earlier, it's easier to put down berkeley on an existing UC app than writing 3 seperate essay just for michigan or VA..in fact, michigan seems to be the highest of the 3 despite also the highest admit rate</p>
<p>Dean J:</p>
<p>"The number is 13,353."</p>
<p>I'm talking total students, undergrad and grad (Berkeley has closer to 20k undergrads, Michigan 25k). UVa has ~20k; Berkeley ~30k; Michigan ~40k -- undergrads+grads.</p>
<p>"people tend to think berkeley is really hard to get in becoz of its low admit rate"</p>
<p>By that logic, people tend to think that UChic is easy to get into because of its somewhat high admit rate (~40%, which is high for top colleges). But that isn't the case. People think that UChic and Berkeley are difficult to get into because of the average stats of students who get in, etc. They both have high standards.</p>
<p>bearcats:</p>
<p>I don't know what collegeboard info you're looking at, but from what I can see, Berkeley's stats are:</p>
<p>CR: 580 - 710
M: 620 - 740</p>
<p>In addition, you have to keep in mind that Berkeley doesn't superscore (I heard that UVa does).</p>
<p>At any rate, we have established: despite incremental differences in SAT scores, they are comparable.</p>
<p>I think that you make a decision based on what you want out of these four years of your life, not just statistics. All three are very good schools but will give you very different experiences. Therefore I would concentrate on determining which is the best fit for your interests and in which place you would be most comfortable as far as a social environment and a learning environment.</p>
<p>I'd say all three are equal for undergrad education, except if one wishes to major in Engineering, in which case Cal and Michigan are better than UVa. </p>
<p>In terms of overall national and international reputation, Cal has the overall edge, Michigan is probably second and UVa third, but all three are highly regarded. </p>
<p>Those three elite public universities are very different culturally though. If I were accepted into all three, I would chose based on fit because in terms of academic excellence and reputation, those three are pretty even.</p>
<p>Data mostly drawn USNWR</p>
<p>OBJECTIVE DATA</p>
<p>Undergraduate Enrollment:
UC-Berkeley: 23,482 Michigan: 25,467 Virginia: 13,889 (CDS)</p>
<p>In-state Student Population as % of All Undergrads:
UC-Berkeley: 91% Michigan: 69% (CDS) Virginia: 66%</p>
<p>Graduation & Retention Rank
UC Berkeley: 25th Michigan: 28th Virginia: 14th
-% of Students expected to graduate in 6 years:
UC Berkeley: 90% Michigan: 77% Virginia: 86%
-% of students who do graduate in 6 years:
UC-Berkeley: 87% Michigan: 86% Virginia: 93%</p>
<p>Faculty Resources Rank:
UC-Berkeley: 40th Michigan: 69th Virginia: 35th
-% of classes with 50+ students
UC Berkeley: 9% Michigan: 16% Virginia: 8%
-% of classes with <20 students
UC-Berkeley: 72% Michigan: 43% Virginia: 49%
-Faculty/student ratio
UC-Berkeley: 7/1 Michigan: 15/1 Virginia: 15/1</p>
<p>Student Selectivity Rank:
UC-Berkeley: 14th Michigan: 22nd Virginia: 26th
-Average SAT/ACT:
UC Berkeley: 1220-1450 Michigan: 1220-1410 Virginia: 1220-1430
-% of students ranking in top 10% of high school class
UC-Berkeley: 99% Michigan: 89% Virginia: 88%
-% acceptance rate (2005)
UC-Berkeley: 27% Michigan: 57%-2005, 47%-2006 Virginia: 38%</p>
<p>Financial Resources Rank:
UC-Berkeley: 39th Michigan: 31st Virginia: 56th</p>
<p>Alumni Giving % and Rank:
UC-Berkeley: 29% (29th) Michigan: 15% (105th) Virginia: 26% (33rd)</p>
<p>SUBJECTIVE DATA</p>
<p>Peer Assessment:
UC-Berkeley: 4.7 Michigan: 4.5 Virginia: 4.3</p>
<p>When one talks about the top public universities in America, invariably these three lead the list (followed closely by UCLA, W&M, UNC. U Wisconsin). On the data listed above, each of UCB, UM, and UVA have areas of relative strength and weakness, but collectively these schools are all very, very close. The only really large, important difference is the undergrad population as UVA is considerably smaller. </p>
<p>IMO, jags861 and Alexandre have each made pithy assessments that I would like to second:</p>
<p>jags: "the obvious answer is whichever one is in your state…and the perception of each school is based on where you live in the US"</p>
<p>alexandre: " I'd say all three are equal for undergrad education, except if one wishes to major in Engineering, in which case Cal and Michigan are better than UVa."</p>
<p>those stats really say very little about the education you will recieve.</p>
<p>Matt:</p>
<p>Oh, I disagree. For instance, the fact that Berkeley has 70%+ of its classes in the under 20 size speaks volumes for the opportunity to have a meaningful learning experience. The fact that Berkely is almost all Californian tells you something about your classmates.</p>
<p>the education you will receive will be excellent at whichever school you go to. sure maybe you'll get a really sweet orgo professor at berkeley and the one at UVa will suck, or maybe a UVa history professor will bring life to colonial american history while a michigan professor will bore you to sleep, but in the end, you'll get a great education no matter where you go.</p>
<p>also - theres all this continuous hate on UVa engineering. I realize its not ranked top 10 like michigan or berkeley's is, but the fact is UVa engineering graduates make just as much as michigan and berkeley engineering graduates. in other words - its not "bad"</p>
<p>tarhunt,</p>
<p>that number for berkeley with 70% less than 20 is wrong. at least according to Berkeleys most current common data set, there are 1009 classes between 2-9 and 902 classes between 10-19. there are 3230 total classes - making it 59% less than 20 students - of course this is still ahead of both uva and michigan. also, berkeley's student to faculty ratio is not 7/1 its 15.4/1 according to its CDS - which is about the same as uva and michigan.</p>
<p>Thanks jags. It sounded awfully darn good for a large, public school, but if it had been correct, my opinion of Berkeley would have changed quite a bit.</p>
<p>jags861,
Nice catch on my error of UCB % of classes under 20-you are absolutely correct that 59% is the right number. I had done a similar comparison involving Northwestern and they are the one with 72%. My apologies to all for the mix-up. Doesn't change the conclusion at all about UCB, UM, UVA (in fact, it probably further reinforces it), but it's always good to get the facts straight.</p>
<p>I'd say UCB, UVA, UMich...UMich is overrated in my opinion.</p>
<p>At times, I think UMich is overrated; other times, underrated. Generally, UVa seems underrated. Berkeley is underrated by private-ites.</p>
<p>For those who think UMich is overrated please explain? I really don't see how..numbers speak for themselves.</p>
<p>i have to agree with UVa being consistently underrated. It is a consistent top 25 school - no matter how you slice it.</p>
<p>For example, a lot of time people on this board will do "peer assesment free rankings" of USnews, UVa always is the number 1 public (and in the top 25). Sole peer assesment rankings also put UVa in the top 25. UVa is the only public in the top 20 for the "preferred school" rankings put out by stanford. UVa also is in the top 25 according to the productivity of its faculty in its research output. Oh and its ugrad business school was ranked no. 2, soley behind wharton by business week.</p>
<p>i don't get why people think it plays 3rd wheel to berkeley and michigan</p>