Hello
I got accepted at Case Western Reserve and University of Michigan for Premed. I am getting $35000 from Case but I have not heard from U Mich about Financial Aid yet as I just got accepted today. I am not sure which one to pick. U Mich is well known ranked 25. CWR is ranked 40 and not well known. Most people don’t know CWR, which bothers me. Both of them are about 4 hours from my house. I need your advice.
Wait until you get the net price from Michigan to compare it with CWRU.
UMich might give us $15000 but my daughter want to go to UMich. So UMich will cost me $20000 more per year. Does it worth it?
“Most people don’t know CWR” and you are 4 hours away? Hard to understand that.
I’m a Michigan grad. My neighbor’s daughter went to CWR and had a great experience, and she now has a nice job with GE.
Here is something to think about…if your daughter wants to go to Michigan, and you can’t afford the extra $80K (more like $90K after Michigan’s notorious annual increases), split the $40K-$45K, and give it to her after she goes to CWR (she gets it upon graduation). She might change her mind, and you are helping her out for grad school, a car, etc. You would rather give it to her than the college, right?
Loved Michigan, but I have serious doubts that it mattered that much in my career.
We live in the Chicagoland area.
I feel the same way about the cost. I will share your suggestion with my daughter. She is set on U Mich just because her friends did not know CWR.
Her plan is to go to medical school after that. I know it is expensive too. Thanks for your thoughts.
Not sure why you will be getting any aid from UMich. Have her see if her friends will pay the difference.
Her friends may not have a particular interest in academics. By selectivity, for example, UM and CWRU place nearly identically to each other.
I’m glad to talk with both of you in a direct message thread (even though I’m a complete stranger) to share my experience at Michigan. My daughter, a senior this year, turned down Michigan and Wisconsin for a lower ranked school, partially because of the outrageous cost. I realize I’m a complete stranger but I feel that the school is failing in its mission as a public university to provide an education that’s affordable to the average family.
@sbdad12 you are from California. The mission of UM and UW isn’t to give your daughter a subsidized education.
Nor is it to gouge people. Tell me why Michigan, with a $12B endowment, is $15,000 more per year than Wisconsin? And before you say anything more, Michigan gets a ton of federal money, so in essence, it is my money.
I don’t have as big of an issue with Wisconsin as I do my alma mater. And for that matter, the UCs and UVA, all of which are much more expensive than comparable state universities like UNC and Texas.
For that matter, many privates too after aid. Look at @profrmk; their daughter received $35,000 in aid from CWR, a school that has an endowment 1/6 of Michigan’s. They will likely receive nothing from Michigan.
Is it any wonder that 10% of families whose kids attend a state school, Michigan, earn $630,000 or more?
Many of my friends who are alums agree. At least for out of staters, Michigan has become a rich kids school. It was not that way 30 years ago, and the Regents and administration could care less.
Actually, that may be intentional. As states have defunded their public universities, flagships that are attractive to out-of-state students use the out-of-state tuition to bring in more money in part to replace the reduced state funding.
You do bash your alma mater often here on CC. And it’s actually 9.3% and here’s the footnote from that study:
So, 7 (SEVEN!) years ago, this MAY have been true, but Michigan instituted several programs in the past few years to change this issue, including the Go Blue Guarantee, established January 2018. They also have increased need-based aid to OOS students. And they’ve increased their ranking partly based on the increase in Pell grants.
Why is UMich $15,000 more than Wisconsin? Higher selectivity of both instate and OOS students, higher ranked programs, supply, demand, etc.
And UMichigan isn’t worried about a governor significantly cutting funding to the school, like UWisc (or the UC’s for that matter) is going through recently:
“UPDATE: Walker’s loss, his destructive education policies will linger for years”
Lack of adequate space, program cuts, poor morale, blah, blah, blah. Sounds a little like the recent issue with the UC’s and underpaying their TA’s.
Between the 40+ Top 10 programs in LSA, plus the CoE, CS, Nursing, etc., UMich has a plethora of elite programs. I know the math program is #12, if my memory serves.
"You do bash your alma mater often here on CC. "
Yes–damn straight I do. Which also doesn’t mean I don’t love the school and want it to do well. I spent four years on the campus. This makes me a bit more qualified to comment, as I have a 35+ year association with the school. I’m guessing yours is less than 4. Sorry to be snarky, but I have a bit more history and insight on the school than you do.
If alums and others don’t criticize the school, where it is deserved, then it will never change. For an analogy, everyone that continued to buy GMs when their quality sucked did not do the company any favors. It’s only when they lost market share, and they nearly went bankrupt, did the quality improve. Sometimes hard love is required. We are, after all, The Leaders and Best.
“And it’s actually 9.3% and here’s the footnote from that study:”
Sorry if i was .7% off. Consider it a rounding error. NEARLY 10% come from families that make $630,000+. I stand by my assertion.
“They also have increased need-based aid to OOS students. And they’ve increased their ranking partly based on the increase in Pell grants.”
Read this article and tell me I’m still wrong. It represents many more families and students than you know:
https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-education/being-poor-rich-u-m-campus-still-struggle-school-broadens-reach
"Why is UMich $15,000 more than Wisconsin? Higher selectivity of both instate and OOS students, higher ranked programs, supply, demand, etc.
Not true. UNC is a much more difficult school to get into OOS. UT Austin is as well. My DD was rejected at UT Austin, and admitted to Michigan this year. Both have lower costs of attendance. I think you mistake selectivity for high cost. There are a number of places that have higher selectivity than Michigan, and their financial aid packages are much larger for upper middle class families.
And UMichigan isn’t worried about a governor significantly cutting funding to the school, like UWisc (or the UC’s for that matter) is going through recently:"
Partially true. Walker was an idiot–we agree. The GOP-legislature in Michigan wants to cut funding there too. (less than the rate of inflation, which is a cut)
https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-education/report-funding-cuts-high-tuition-spawn-cost-crisis-michigan-colleges
“Between the 40+ Top 10 programs in LSA, plus the CoE, CS, Nursing, etc., UMich has a plethora of elite programs. I know the math program is #12, if my memory serves.”
I don’t deny that Michigan has great academics. You won’t see me criticize Michigan academics ever. But many schools have great departments, and so does Wisconsin. It still doesn’t justify the outrageous high cost at my school.
As a side note, I was recently let go from my job due to the Coronavirus. Called Michigan financial aid and explained the situation to them. They told me if I only earned $20,000 of income this year, they would likely be able to give us a $16,000 break off of tuition. It would still be close to $54,000/year. Some break.
Am I upset with the school for its attitude towards financial aid? Yes. Do I still think it’s a great school? Yes.
I think you confuse my criticism of the Administration for hating the school. It’s the opposite. If I didn’t love the school, I would care less.
Very true. I don’t deny this. The UCs do this, to the exclusion of in state students, but that’s another subject.
Michigan has a gigantic $12B endowment. If they spent an extra $50-$100M/year of it on bringing their financial aid in line with other universities for middle to upper middle income families, they could attract a more socioeconomically diverse student body.
And @Eeyore123 , here is the mission of U of M: The mission of the University of Michigan is to serve the people of Michigan and the WORLD through preeminence in creating, communicating, preserving and applying knowledge, art, and academic values, and in developing leaders and citizens who will challenge the present and enrich the future.
How do you create and develop leaders if they are shut out of the school by excessively high tuition, including my OOS daughter’s, no matter where they come from?
Case is a super school and IMO a better choice for a pre med. Save that $ for med school! Don’t let your daughter make a choice based on ignorant friends. Rest assured that med schools, and employers if she pivots course, all know Case.
30 years ago the OOS tuition was about 3x instate at UW. Looking at history except for a brief period around 2010 it has always maintained that relationship. 30 years ago, OOS students paid 105% of the cost of their tuition. I don’t know what that percentage is today.
Colleges are one of the few areas that practice price discrimination. I see no reason why the University shouldn’t use its name to subsidize the lower income population of their state. Thinking back, all of people that I knew from OOS were either upper-middle or upper class. Not sure if much has changed.
There is no doubt that college tuition is very high and unjustified. I am sure this all will change in 15 years as more people move to online education. It looks like COVID-19 is pushing all of us in that direction.
True, and that is the case with a lot of schools. Between 3-4X for OOS vs in state.
It appears I’m hypercritical of Michigan, but if you see my comments on other threads, I’m suggesting to kids to avoid debt in general. It’s so poisonous to their futures, and the mania that the media feeds with US News rankings, etc only contributes to it.
I’m a big fan of Frank Bruni’s book, “Where you go is not who you will be: An antidote to the college admissions mania.” There are a lot of good schools out there, so going into major debt for undergraduate especially should be avoided.
I agree on price discrimination. But universities are doing a horrible job at containing costs, even in the face of state budget cutbacks. Michigan’s OOS tuition has grown at the annual rate of 6.7%. Not even housing in very expensive places like California has grown that quickly. And it is killing the middle and upper middle classes more than anyone else.
Is that because opportunities for college (to the extent that they existed) have already mostly been killed off for the lower classes?