@LvMyKids2 @GraceDad I think the perception that data discrepancies exist is because there are a number of different metrics related to testing statistics that are of vital importance to applicants but which do not always get communicated clearly in things like Viewbooks and FAQs, etc. The 3 critical metrics are:
(1) Mid-50% testing ranges for ALL admitted students (including those admits that don’t ultimately enroll)
(2) Mid-50% testing ranges for ALL ENROLLED students (as calculated by the Admissions Office)
(3) Mid-50% testing range for ALL ENROLLED students (as calculated by the CDS methodology)
If you look back at Post #15 in this thread, the reason why metrics (2) and (3) can differ ever-so-slightly is explained in detail. This info came straight “from the horse’s mouth” (so to speak), since I got fed up with what I had erroneously thought was a data issue and finally just called ND Admissions about it. For the record, the ND admissions office was very responsive – they run a solid operation over there.
As @GraceDad notes, if you look back to the class that entered ND in Fall 2016, the same issue existed. The CDS reported ever-so-slightly lower ACT/SAT testing ranges for enrolled students when compared with the testing ranges for enrolled students as reported on the ND admissions statistics website that @GraceDad linked.
Fast forward to the class that entered ND in Fall 2017, and the same issue persists. The CDS shows ACT/SAT testing ranges of 32-34 / 1370-1520 and the admissions stats webpage shows ranges of 33-35 / 1390-1530. So, in both years, the fact that ND’s data slightly differed from the CDS data can be explained by those enrollees (about 25% of each entering class) that submitted both ACT and SAT. Those students slightly drag down the CDS middle-50% as explained in post #15.
Of course, this doesn’t help answer the question as to why ND’s published FAQ (as linked by GraceDad in post #14) shows a mid-50% range of 33-35 and 1390-1530 for admitted students. This is the one statistic that I think Notre Dame might actually need to fix. The reason I say that is because I have an email sent directly from the ND Admissions Office from last summer that says the mid-50% testing range for ALL ADMITTED students last year was 33-35 for the ACT and 1470-1560 for the SAT. That email makes the most sense to me because I would assume that the ADMITTED students middle-50% range would always be higher than the ENROLLED students middle-range.
In my opinion, the key point for any applicant reading this thread is this: use the 33-35 and the 1390-1530 ranges as your best estimate for what it takes to get into the class. And best of luck to every single applicant for “Class of 2022” awaiting a decision.
@GeronimoAlpaca The only point I disagree with you on is that while the 2016 data is slightly different, it is not different because of the CDS reporting both ACT and SAT tests for the same applicant. 2016 and prior, the CDS was reporting only the best score. Thats why the number of submitted standardized test scores went up by over 300 for the 2017 year.
Compare the CDS of Notre Dame to some other schools under “Basis for Selection”. You will see that they care MOST about the Rigor of your high school record. Test scores are only “important”. You are honestly splitting hairs on the test scores as what they look for in test scores will likely vary by state (like National Merit), by institutional needs, majors etc.
@ GraceDad You are exactly right. In prior years, the total number of tests looks like it was based on “best score” whereas this latest CDS looks like it was based on “all” scores since the total # of tests exceeds the total # of enrolled kids for the class that entered last fall.
@ FoxRulz You’re entirely correct that much of this “middle-50% test score” discussion is splitting hairs… no argument from me. You’re also correct that ND cares most about rigor of HS coursework and academic performance in those courses. I would say, however, that Notre Dame is a school that’s incredibly “test score sensitive.” In that regard, ND is a lot like other schools in its rankings cohort – schools like Vanderbilt, Rice University, Washington University in St. Louis all are generally considered top-20 type schools, and all of them seem to pay particularly close attention to test scores. Bear in mind that ND is maintaining a middle-50% ACT range of 33-35 / SAT range of 1390-1530 with a much larger entering class than those other institutions and also admitting slightly more than 10% of each incoming class as athletes. It’s an incredibly high threshold to maintain for a school with that size of freshman class and that sort of wide-ranging athletic program.
“I would say, however, that Notre Dame is a school that’s incredibly “test score sensitive.” In that regard, ND is a lot like other schools in its rankings cohort – schools like Vanderbilt, Rice University, Washington University in St. Louis all are generally considered top-20 type schools, and all of them seem to pay particularly close attention to test scores.”
ND, Vandy, etc. clearly dig the high test scores. A CDS ACT range of 32-35 (or so) is HYPS level. But maybe not quite Caltech, MIT level. : )
Geronimo – thanks for digging into the pesky two sets of numbers coming from ND question. Good luck in RD.
@GraceDad @northwesty I wonder if Notre Dame’s admissions staff reads these boards? The SAT score range for admitted students on the “Notre Dame Admissions FAQ” page that @GraceDad had linked a couple of days ago appears to have been updated to show a higher range.
Now it says the middle-50% ranges for all admitted students are 1420-1540 SAT and 33-35 ACT.
And the middle-50% ranges for all enrolled freshmen are 1390-1530 and 33-35 ACT.
https://admissions.nd.edu/apply/faqs/
https://admissions.nd.edu/apply/admission-statistics/
The ND internal admissions page says 2017 enrolled students is 32-34. The CDS for the 2017 frosh class is not out yet.
ND internal page for the 2016 enrolled class says 33-35. The CDS for that class says 32-35.
@northwesty Wow, not only was the Admissions FAQ page updated with revised higher SAT scores for the admitted students, but the actual “ND Admissions Statistics” page that you just linked was updated with a lower ACT score range for enrollees. It used to say 33-35, but now it shows 32-34.
I think the timing of these changes is very interesting.
Note that the 2017-18 ND CDS has been updated with the stats for the class that enrolled last fall… see link below.
http://ospir.nd.edu/assets/265299/cds_2017_2018.pdf
Hello, all! My D is a freshman at ND this year and I came back to check on all of you, because I remember how nervous the group was last year. The info re release date in relation to St. Pat’s date is accurate from our experience. After getting to meet many ND students and their parents this year, it seems the scores and grades and extra-curriculars are so competitive that essays turned into a big deal. Also, my D was not invited to be part of an Honors program, so don’t sweat that issue. I think she got a 32 ACT, maybe a 33, but I remember there being a lot of perfect scores…this was discussed during the welcome weekend. Good luck, everyone!
It looks like the previous decision dates are as follows:
2019 Monday March 23, 2015
2020 Friday March 18, 2016
2021 Monday March 20, 2017
(This is based on reading through the past years’ applicant threads…)
Based on this, the decision date would be either the 16th, 19th, or the 23rd. If the date is historically always after and never before St. Patrick’s day, then that rules out the 16th. If Notre Dame likes to keep a Mon. Fri. Mon. Fri. pattern, then the 23rd is likely. Of course this is all just speculative.
Does anyone know if Notre Dame releases the decision date before the actual day that decisions come out?
Last year, they sent out the “portal” a week in advance. So if we get it on Monday, the decisions wills probably be out on the 19th
They sent out the “portal” by the email? Sorry, I’m an international parent, so have no idea how it works…
@maria74 They send an email with instructions to set up a “portal” about a week before decisions come out. The portal is where you will access your decision when it comes out.
Thank you very much, kitkat2018 !
Someone please post if they receive a portal email!!
The wait is difficult! Would anyone have any updated information on Notre Dame’s stance on accepting AP classes for college credit?
Just to clarify, the portal isn’t out yet. If you haven’t gotten it yet, don’t worry, no one has.
@CatherineF I would wait until you find out your decision before you worry about that
@CatherineF, I looked a week or so ago and I don’t think they’ve published the new policy yet.
THANK YOU! My S was accepted at Boston College and they do take his AP classes there. Just hoping ND does as well…