<p>I’ve known people who taught at U of Phoenix and they were legitimate courses that I’m sure were of benefit to the student. These were people from industry - not PHD or Masters degree holding people but people who knew the material.</p>
<p>I think the problem with this one and a number of the other for profits isn’t that they don’t teach material, but that young people who are using it as an alternative to attending a ‘normal’ college may be more likely to end up with debt rather than a degree (low grad rates for young people I’ve heard), the degree isn’t perceived in the marketplace as being comparable in quality to a degree from many of the ‘normal’ colleges, and that now with them going to a much higher percentage of online classes, where I assume the profit margin must be much higher than brick and mortar locations, the perceived quality of the degree may be diminished even further.</p>
<p>The business model of these colleges must be getting forced into changes now with the advent of online classes and degree programs that are becoming available from some state and non-profit private universities including some of the higher level ones. These colleges like U of Phoenix are no longer the only practical alternative for people who must work while getting their degree or advanced degree. If you decided to get an MBA right now but still had to work, you’d have choices from some well known traditional colleges - not just U of Phoenix and the like.</p>
<p>I do remember when Notre Dame started what we called a “weekend MBA” which required spending a weekend there I think it was each month. It’s always been easier to get a graduate degree through an EMBA program or alternative, but it’s only been recently that those types of alternative schedule options were available to undergrads. I would guess that is where a truly competitive environment is going to manifest.</p>
<p>As a hiring manager I can tell you that resumes from U of Phoenix, Kaplan, or any other online “university” are immediately disgarded by everyone I know. There are so many qualified applicants from reputable schools that there is no reason to even look at online grads. </p>
<p>These schools are preying on people to get their Pell and loan money.</p>
<p>“schools” like iron maiden listed are set up to prey on people to get government loans .
hr departments not only toss those resumes but, often see people who fell for those programs as weak.</p>
<p>One of the negatives of the “for-profit” college model or even non-profits which follow the “student is a customer” idea is it creates a strong disincentive to flunk or give bad grades to students for fear said student will be lost as a customer because of being flunked out or him/her opting to drop out. Rather than risk losing a tuition-paying customer, many such institutions have resorted to diluting the rigor/quality of work required and/or giving higher than merited grades so said students would continue to be a source for tuition payments. </p>
<p>In some of the cases I’ve read about, what they end up doing with students with pell grants/student loans isn’t too far removed from what some Division I universities used to do to their student athletes…use up their money/talent for institutional benefits and then leaving them educationally high and dry once that money/talent’s all exhausted.</p>
<p>My public school district is doing the same darn thing, only they don’t charge the student. We have a cyber high school… the district gets the same amount of money for a cyber-student as it gets for a brick-and-mortar student. Anyone can enroll, even students from other districts. Off-topic, I know, but this discussion reminded me of it …</p>
<p>(“leaving them educationally high and dry” reminded me)</p>
<p>If these for profit colleges provide a competitor to the “old school” way of educating students then I am all for it. As for fleecing students, so do many of the state colleges whose graduation rates are lower than 60%, since they are taking money from many who simply aren’t even qualified to be there (can you say remedial math and English!). Obviously many of those dropouts simply should not have been there, similar to the for-profit schools who prey on those who “think” they want to improve themselves but simply don’t have the drive or self discipline necessary to go to school “on-line”.</p>
<p>I made an online inquiry about Phoenix a few years ago, for myself. That resulted in a number of high pressure sales calls in which my questions about cost and credit transferability were never answered to my satisfaction. I’m a reasonably intelligent adult who finally saw through the sham and when the sales rep knew I did, he stopped calling. That experience left a bad taste in my mouth even before the recent investigations into the practices of for-profit colleges.</p>
<p>That said, closing the buildings and leaving the much larger online business in place doesn’t seem that momentous a development.</p>
<p>In the '50s and 60’s, some flagship public universities with near-free/free in-state rates and open-admission policies for in-staters probably had lower than currently acceptable graduation rates. </p>
<p>A large part of that was those policies were coupled with a university-wide policies which unprepared and/or the unmotivated are weeded out within an incoming class’ first two years so every in-stater has an opportunity to attend college if desired and only the academically prepared and/or motivated succeeded in making it to graduation. </p>
<p>Difference was such low graduation rates weren’t always considered a bad thing if the main cause was due to the weeding out of unprepared and/or unmotivated underclassmen as the though was that the weeded out student had his/her chance…and didn’t follow through on it. </p>
<p>In short, criticizing a university…especially a public one for low graduation rates without a deeper examination of the factors involved doesn’t shed much light on the actual possible problems…or whether there is really a problem from certain standpoints.</p>
<p>mini, if you’re that opposed to TAs and grad student instructors, did you encourage your D to turn down the TA and preceptorship funding packages she evidently received? Honest question.</p>
<p>Cobrat, not criticizing a Public University, just comparing them to the University of Phoenix and other for profit institutions. Frankly, neither have the goal of graduating students, they simply have the goal of filling up their classrooms. After all, they are nothing more than a government run institution who aren’t judged on their outcomes and have little to no competition (i.e. the supply is far smaller then their demand…that is a basic economic principle that most would understand…)</p>
<p>And I see you missed my point about several decades ago…graduating students wasn’t considered a primary goal…especially in the uncritical ways it tends to be discussed within the last few decades. Lowered graduation rates because a given public institution opted for lowered/open admissions for in-staters/all students and yet, maintained their academic standards by only allowing the academically prepared and/or motivated students to graduate while effectively weeding out the academically unprepared and/or unmotivated students wasn’t considered a bad thing back then. </p>
<p>If anything, it was considered a good thing as it provided every state resident an opportunity for a college education and yet, ensured that only those who met the school’s academic standards stayed on for the last two years/graduation which not only maintained the perceived academic reputation of said institution and turned out well-educated graduates…but also ensured wastage of taxpayer subsidies on unprepared/unmotivated students was kept to the minimum. </p>
<p>Another way to ensure high graduation rates and maintain academic standards is to have high barriers of entry at the admissions stage as with the elite colleges. </p>
<p>If the goal of high graduation rates are taken too uncritically and too far…especially if they’re unable/politically unwilling to raise high entry barriers at the admissions stage, colleges may be tempted to take the path of least resistance…water down academic requirements to the point the degree is perceived by potential employers as having no value-added academically and intellectually over an average/mediocre high school diploma or worse. </p>
<p>This last phenomenon has already happened to many public K-12 schools and some colleges over the last few decades with disastrous results. One of those college systems in my hometown has spent the last decade trying to undo the severe reputation hit taken once it went on that path from the late '60s till the late '90s. While they’ve succeeded to some extent, they still have a long way to go to regain the reputation it had before that period.</p>
<p>State colleges with low grad rates offer an opportunity for those who do graduate to have a chance. Many of them would not be accepted elsewhere. One could say the same for Phoenix, but the state colleges allow the opportunity at a much lower cost. Phoenix (and others) offer it with a snazzy sales pitch disregarding the high cost. The people they prey on often don’t know they have a choice or have a clue about the real cost of the debt they are incurring. Somehow, that gets “missed” in the sales pitch.</p>
<p>At least most privates people choose to pay a ton for offer a higher graduation rate - AND the default rate on loans from private 4 year schools is quite low. Not so with the for-profits. There are some privates I’d classify with the for-profits, but that does not mean I support Phoenix. I’d love to see it close totally, or if not, at least close more than half of one section.</p>
<p>Since 2009 there are lot of students Enrolled into Online Education Programs at Phoenix University. I have completed my bachelors degree from Phoenix and now studying further to [get</a> honorary degree](<a href=“onlinelifeexperiencedegree.org”>http://onlinelifeexperiencedegree.org/honorary-doctoral-degrees/), because higher education there are very low chances of good paying jobs.</p>