<p>Here's a question I've been pondering for a while, so I thought I would submit it to the experts in the Nursing Forum.</p>
<p>For the sake of comparison, let's say that financially everything is equal for a candidate admitted to both the University of Pittsburgh School of Nursing and at Villanova's School of Nursing. Which would be a better choice?</p>
<p>Fit-wise, I can see myself at both Pitt and Villanova, though for different reasons. Pitt is a wonderful small/medium urban environment, and Villanova has access to the city while maintaining a distance, allowing for a strong community of dedicated students.</p>
<p>Both are well accredited (Villanova is twice a NLN Center of Nursing Excellence), both have high graduation rates and selective admissions rates, and both have strong clinical sites (I know that Pitt involves the completion of 1300 clinical hours, but I can't find the figure for Villanova).</p>
<p>What I see as distinctive about Pitt is the presence of a plethora of research opportunities, as Pitt is a center of nursing research and receives the 5th highest NIH funding in the country.</p>
<p>What I see as distinctive about Villanova is that 90% of graduates are employed in acute care settings upon graduation (a field I am strongly interested in) and that the program integrates a faith-based approach.</p>
<p>I would have a very difficult time choosing between the two, especially if they are so close in cost (they are my top two choices, and I will soon be receiving a financial and merit aid offer from Villanova). What information might I be missing that would assist me in my decision? What would you choose in my place?</p>
<p>Thanks in advance. I am always impressed by the insight of contributors on this forum.</p>
<p>I suppose the locations of Villanova’s clinical sites may be considered a negative when compared to the convenience of Pitts’.
[Clinical</a> Affiliations Undergraduate Program](<a href=“http://www.villanova.edu/nursing/programs/undergrad/affiliations.htm]Clinical”>M. LOUISE FITZPATRICK COLLEGE OF NURSING | Villanova University)
Does Villanova offer a Grad School Guarantee like the one Pitt offered you?
When my daughter was considering Villanova during the Fall, I wrote the SON and asked about the clinical hours. I was sent the following (partially):</p>
<p>“Thank you for your interest in the Villanova College of Nursing. Our BSN
program offers our students approximately 840 clinical hours in their
four years of study. During your first two years you take courses in
basic nursing theory and clinical skills which include practice in our
clinical simulation laboratories. Students begin their clinical
rotations second semester sophomore year and continue throughout their
junior and senior years. We are affiliated with over 70 health care
agencies in the metropolitan Philadelphia area which give our students a
very comprehensive clinical experience. We have an 1:8 faculty/student
ratio in the clinical area.”</p>
<p>wow, hard to believe that both could ultimately cost the same,even considering merit and financial aid.Is the candidatefrom out of state? Pitt, if i recall properly, is approximately 28K? and 'Nova is 52k…'Nova must really want a candidate to lower their costs to that of Pitt…And in that case,i’d choose 'Nova…Not sure how the “religious” aspect plays into the mix, but personally,i like it…</p>
<p>Because of required courses in religion, you will have less electives at Villanova. You should look at the sample nursing curriculum of each to compare them.</p>
<p>The link to the PA NCLEX pass rates is a real eye opener! I wonder what explains, for example, that the 92.31% 2009 pass rate for Butler County Community Hospital beats the 91.67% pass rate at Penn? Are nursing students at a community college really getting a better education than those at an Ivy League institution???</p>
<p>lol,i seriously doubt Butler CC is getting a better education then Penn…sample size is 1/3 that of Penn,but credit must be given to those who indeed did pass at Butler CC</p>
<p>But Butler CC isn’t the only example. Montgomery County CC had a 92.74% pass rate with nearly the same number of test takers as Penn. Some of the hospital-based programs beat Penn as well. What gives?</p>
<p>I can assure you that Penn provides a better education then either Butler or Montco,whether in Nursing or any other major…Yes, some CC nursing students passed the tests at a somewhat better % then some major programs,but that is like saying a person who graduates magna Cum laude from a CC is as well educated as one who graduates with the same honor from an Ivy…</p>
<p>@ Parent100: Community Colleges are actually known for good to excellent pass rates on the NCLEX, but the value of a BSN much greater than that of an ADN. A BSN offers the ability to quickly advance professionally, and carries with it a greater knowledge set. So a nursing student graduating from Penn has a much better education than a nursing student graduating from a community college, though that knowledge doesn’t always translate to the NCLEX exam. </p>
<p>Also, as qdogpa correctly states, consider the sample size.</p>
<p>@qdogpa: I’m OOS at Pitt, though I have a good scholarship there. At Villanova I am competing for merit awards, and I am hoping to receive a decent amount of financial aid. So it is possible that the costs could be the same. </p>
<p>Before scholarships, aid, or loans packages:</p>
<p>My daughter and I just had a conversation about this yesterday. She’s a junior at Penn and I asked her about the board exam she will have to take. She didn’t know much about it - not even what the initials stood for and what it would cover - said that no one really mentions it and it’s just assumed that it’s not a big deal to pass.<br>
Could explain why some Penn grads would not pass it!</p>
<p>Sorry to keep harping about the PA NCLEX pass rate, but I’ve read in this forum that a key criterion for judging the quality of a nursing program is the first-time pass rate on the NCLEX. But if a SIMILARLY SIZED GRADUATING CLASS from a community college or a hospital program gets a higher pass rate than Penn or Villanova, how can we use the NCLEX pass rate statistic to evaluate a program? </p>
<p>I do of course understand that a BSN is more valuable than a plain vanilla RN, but why does a BSN from highly regarded Universities not translate to a higher NCLEX pass rate than an AA from a community college? I would hit the roof if my child graduated from Penn’s or Villanova’s nursing program but failed this essential exam while 95% of the graduates from a community college passed!!!</p>
Would it be OK with you if the community college (or BSN program) did not allow your child to take the NCLEX at all to protect their NCLEX pass percentage?</p>
<p>
When evaluating an undergrad nursing program, I think a prospective student (and their parents) should not only ask what the NCLEX pass rate is (although that number is important), but also whether there are “other” tests given prior to the NCLEX which determines whether the Nursing Program prevents the student from taking the NCLEX. My understanding is that some programs only “allow” those students they are confident will pass the NCLEX to actually take the test. Thus keeping their NCLEX pass rate high. While on the surface that may make some sense, the question should be how many senior nursing students take the NCLEX and how many pass. If 10% or more of the senior class is not allowed to take the NCLEX I’d be concerned about how well the nursing program is preparing their students.</p>
<p>Keep in mind also that there are so few students taking this test in some schools that just one or two students passing or failing can have a fairly large impact on pass percentages.</p>
<p>If you don’t think that the education your child would receive from the nursing programs at Villanova, Penn or Pitt are worth paying a premium, then don’t send your children to one of these “highly” regarded universities. There is probably a community college near you that your child could commute to and also save the room & board costs.</p>
<p>She really likes it - and that’s saying a lot because she was very unsure about nursing to begin with. It’s really this year (junior year) when she started hospital clinical work that it has started to click. She loved labor and delivery and I just got a text today that she was placed in an oncology unit for her next clinical which is something she was hoping for. She’s had one clincal at CHOP and one at HUP, both on campus and then one that she purposefully picked off campus for it’s reputation as a good L&D experience.<br>
She has not enjoyed the science classes which are pretty competitive but she is taking a healthcare management minor with classes that she likes.
Time management is a problem because nursing has long class hours but she has time to be involved in a sorority and a few other interests.</p>
<p>^^^
Thank you ShanghaiMom! I am posting this at 3:00 AM because we are leaving for Philadelphia for my daughter’s Penn nursing interview. It is a big reach for her but she had to at least try for the only Ivy undergrad nursing program. </p>
<p>I printed out your post for her to read during the trip (as she has some of your others). Thanks so much for the insight. </p>
<p>Is the program that your daughter is enrolled the dual nursing / Wharton program for health care management?</p>
<p>Oh - your daughter will really get great info from that interview! She’s probably meeting with Marianne Smith who was the one who convinced my d to study nursing. We visited Penn on day 2 of a 5 day college road trip and called the nursing dept to get a tour and ended up with a surprise interview that we didn’t realize was an interview until after we left. I was in the room as well and it was a 3 way discussion about Penn, Nursing, career opportunities and my daughter’s qualifications. It made ME want to go back to school to be a nurse!
My d is not in the dual major program but is pursuing a minor in health services management: [Nursing</a> and Health Services Management Minor](<a href=“http://www.nursing.upenn.edu/students/Minors/Pages/HealthServicesManagementMinor.aspx]Nursing”>http://www.nursing.upenn.edu/students/Minors/Pages/HealthServicesManagementMinor.aspx)
She had originally tried to also do the Global Healthcare minor but became too swamped with classes and decided to drop it. She wasted a few electives on Psych classes freshman year but that’s part of college - expoloring different subjects.</p>
<p>aglages, best of luck…U Penn is terrific…We were denied,but it was a major stretch,but we needed to at least make an attempt…We met the nursing admission person, the Dean of Nursing, toured the campus,sat thru some classes,had great rec’s from Alumni…Was told the “magic” number for ACTS was 28 for nursing,and at least 1300 sats…fell just short,but don’t regret the opportunity at all</p>
<p>ShanghaiMom & qdogpa: Thanks for the posts! Visit today was wonderful and yes we did meet with Marriane Smith who was very welcoming and encouraging. My wife and daughter talked about Penn and it’s nursing opportunities during the entire return trip (6 hours). Now the waiting begins. My daughter applied RD and fortunately does have an ACT above 28 & is over 1300 with her M/CR scores. Supposedly the nursing college will let applicants know by the end of February. Fingers crossed!</p>
<p>ShanghaiMom: We were taken to lunch (after the 11:00 interview) by a junior in the nursing program. Her name was Rachael and she was from a suburb outside of Chicago. If your daughter knows her…please let her know that we enjoyed her honesty and enthusiasm and wish her all the best.</p>