His only evidence was she completed the online test in 2/12 minutes and said it was impossible for anyone to have done it in less than 5.
I’ve discussed with her and she did not cheat. In fact, she got a tutor who helped her prior to the test so she could succeed.
He asked her to cooperate by admitting she cheated and she refused since she did not. I believe her. She never lies.
How many of you parents have gotten a lawyer for the university hearing which sounds like a kangaroo court?
Advice?
Your job as a parent is to be the one who doesn’t get hysterical here. She has a witness on her side if she gets a letter from the tutor attesting that she was well-prepared.
I think it’s best to try to let kids handle their own issues. My daughter was accused of plagiarism. She had uploaded her paper. Noticed a typo. Reuploaded without the typo. The second was flagged as a plagiarism of the first.
Although we coached her on how to approach things, we did not contact anyone on campus. She survived and got full credit for her paper, too.
It’s not a kangaroo court. There is probably a web page or handbook somewhere explaining the academic hearing process.
What kind of test is doable in 2 minutes? or 5 for that matter?
Maybe she can go in and prove to the professor that she is super speedy with that type of work? Maybe she could offer to do a proctored repeat quiz to prove that she fully understood the material during the first quiz?
You do not get an attorney at this point - that would be nuts.
Your daughter needs to learn about what the next steps are. Is the prof involving the University’s office that deals with academic integrity issues or is he creating his own punishment of a zero on the quiz or for the class?
She met with professor and dept head. They asked to cooperate and admit guilt. She refused since she said she is not guilty. They said she will have to appear before academic conduct board.
These kids are taught to speed read and zoom through material in order to score amazingly high on the ACT. They get accepted into college because of those scores. And then when they show that same uncanny speediness on a multiple choice (I’m guessing), single subject quiz they are give the side eye…
I would think that her best defense is that she really is speedy when it comes to answering those questions.
Unless your daughter is a kangaroo, she is not sent to a kangaroo court. There can be quizzes answered in very !it’s time but would require a handful of questions with very specific answers. What was said about test time? If faculty and a Dean called her in and told her to admit cheating, that suggests they think they have good evidence. With a computer test, when she started or was looking at test items should be timed. This situation seems strange, even information to support the accusation is incomplete. Your daughter needs to find out potential penalties, definition of cheating, how the system works. Is it even possible that the tutor had taken the test previously and taught her the test during tutoring without disclosing an actual version of the test had been used in tutoring.
If she has met with the professor, and met with the department head, and they have said she will have to appear before an academic conduct board . . . and, as it appears, she is not collaborating closely with a faculty member or administrator whose responsibility it is to advise her and to advocate for her . . . I think it’s not too soon at all to consult with a lawyer. Whatever the facts are, the two most important people she had to convince have decided she’s an obstinate liar and a bad actor. Don’t blithely assume that whoever sits on the conduct board won’t have the same reaction, or won’t defer to their judgment.
I would NOT plan on bringing a litigator to the hearing, guns blazing. He or she would probably be excluded under university rules anyway. I would look for someone who has experience dealing with university disciplinary matters, who understands the process at this particular institution, and can counsel your daughter on strategy, options, and what to do if this round goes against her, as it very well may. There is also some real value in having a third party who is a confidential adviser who is not a parent. There’s a possibility that she did cheat in some way. That’s hard to admit to your parents, but it would be really important to know if you were advising her.
@Hanna may be able to give you an idea how to find such an attorney efficiently. You shouldn’t be charged an arm and a leg for that type of consultation at this point, although you should expect to pay probably a four-figure retainer in advance to get someone experienced and competent. That’s not fair, really, but this is a serious matter that could have very serious consequences; it’s not the moment to prioritize thrift.
I have sat on and chaired a number of academic misconduct hearing boards in my career. Yes, the student should have an advisor (fellow student, graduate student – depends on what’s allowed under the college rules). These boards are very fair, from my experience, and any conclusions or recommendations are subject to administrative appeal and even re-hearings.
In a majority of the cases that I witnessed, the board found in favor of the student.
Yes she should get an adviser and of course she should make darn sure the tutor did not have access to the test before she took it.
My nephew was accused of cheating…along with 40 other students in the class…after this professor had spent weeks complaining that the college over enrolled his class and he didn’t like the amount of students in the class. My nephew is as honest as the day is long and was firm that he did not cheat. Arrogant professor refused to hear anyone, as they all lined up outside his office. He sent an email…of which my nephew saved, so yes I’ve seen it…saying that if you didn’t withdraw from the class and if you tried to challenge him through the conduct board and you did not win that he would “vigorously pursue” having you expelled from the University and it would be on your transcript. All done 2 days after the day you could withdraw and get some money back for the class cost. If you were in the department you would be required to take the class again. Either way you were out a hefty chunk of $$ for the class.
My brother was set to hire an attorney and consulted a friend who had some knowledge of the ins and outs of a large university but my nephew was so shaken and afraid that if they lost he would be expelled and even if he won he would have to face this person for the next several years and possibly have to take another class from him. The fact that he did this after he knew these kids couldn’t get even part of their money refunded and it was too late to take a different class and he cut the class to exactly the size he had been complaining about was mind blowing.
He changed his major, withdrew from the class but saved all the correspondence from this man, just in case he might need it. Two classmates of his transferred to another university. It was a frightening experience for a young person. Good luck to you as I know you are a David up against a Goliath and the odds are not in your favor.
interesting you say that your experience is in favor of the students. My brother was told the exact opposite and going up against a long standing professor and large university was like climbing a mountain. He did not have the money to take that chance and his son was already shaken and tried to speak on his own behalf to no avail and the risk was too high…which I can only assume is exactly what this professor was counting on
I feel like there is more to this story, since it seems like a test that could be completed in 2 minutes would not be worth much in terms of a grade and it’s a lot of hassle for a professor and chair to go through for something negligible.
I have had many students who cheated on work. Having gone through a process once and basically lost, I don’t bother going to that extent now. Students who cheat egregiously generally end up failing, so they pay the price in the end.
She clearly knows the material inside and out. That means something. The professor probably feels that it is his duty and obligation to the other students in the class to bring suspicions of academic misconduct in front of a hearing board. She took an online quiz much faster than the norm and maybe faster than this particular professor had ever seen done before. If she can explain why she was able to do that I would think that she should be o.k. I’ve never been through a hearing like that before so I’m not sure how they work.
I’m with those who say get some sort of experienced adviser, whether it’s an attorney or someone else. There are some schools that have organized “student defender” groups on campus (more likely at large publics) where students are trained to help other students through the disciplinary process.
I also think it’s naive to assume that the process is user friendly and all will be well. I have a friend whose daughter was accused of plagiarism freshman year at Oxy. She didn’t tell her parents about it until she had gone through the disciplinary process on her own with no help and all appeal opportunities had passed. She had a permanent black mark on her record starting as a freshman and basically fell into a depression for the next two years because she figured there was no point in trying anymore. She eventually got back somewhat on track and has worked for several non-profits after graduation, but is scared to apply to graduate school.
I agree, and at least for my nephew , we believed him. The surprising thing is, without too much detail on a subject I’m not even a novice in let alone proficient, the following year this same department put in writing that it was 'acceptable and encouraged ’ to do exactly what these kids were accused of doing as cheating! It is actually listed in the honor code as ‘ok’! Part of what my brother discovered afterwards is that ( whatever it was) was common place and a recommended way to collaborate and learn from peers and most definitely not cheating.
i can only surmise that someone, with more resources than my nephew called this professor’s bluff and challenged him and won.
In the end he is doing fine but it was traumatic none the less.
For the parents’ peace of mind, it may be possible for you to find and download a copy of the student handbook from the University’s website, or perhaps some other references to the academic conduct hearing board’s procedures and standards. Alternatively, one could possibly call the Dean of Students office and ask for an explanation of the process, or at least to be pointed to these resources.
The point is not to try to argue in your child’s favor, but merely to get information directly from a knowledgeable or authoritative source, on what the process is, who gets to participate in presenting what kinds of evidence, and who makes the decisions according to what standards. Simply understanding the process is the first big hurdle, but should be relatively easily overcome.
My son went through something similar this year and I was involved from the beginning. His situation went a little differently, the first meeting was with the Associate Dean of Students and was fact finding in nature, just the 3 of us in attendance. After this I was copied on and included in all correspondence and in the end everything worked out to everyone’s satisfaction.
The reason I bring this up I could tell from the moment we first sat down with the associate dean my attendance was uncharted territory. It appeared the dean was very uncomfortable with me being there. Once the situation had run its course I wrote to the Dean of Students both commending the associate for how he had handled everything and also expressing my opinion on failures in their system and suggestions to improve the process. This was more for my benefit as a catharsis after the stressful situations and I was shocked by the response I received.
Long story short the dean asked for a meeting with me and thanked me for my engagement in the process and the feedback and requested my permission to use my letter as a training tool for her staff. I walked away with the realization that parents are typically not involved in these scenarios because the students don’t tell them until it is too late. I am sure just my presence gave my son a more fair shake in the process and things came to a much better conclusion for him because of it.
My advice is go as your daughters support person, the fact that you show you are involved, believe your daughter, and that she has been open with you about it will help tip the benefit of the doubt in her favor.
I agree with momofthreeboys. My first impression is that the tutor had access to the test or had the class before and the prof reuses the same test. Also there is such a thing as file cabinets that do exists in greek houses. Top tests and papers go into the file cabinet. They are used to review for tests knowing that profs reuse tests every couple of years instead of writing new ones. Ask your dd if the test she was given was the same as examples given by the tutor. If they were, then she needs to tell them who tutored her even if she promised not to. Also was this an official school tutor or just someone she knew or a friend knew? TA’s can get access to tests and quizzes so if a TA (even if they were not hers) could have prior knowledge. It wouldn’t be just the speed of the test but also the grade. A C to an A in quick time would raise questions. Again, she needs to state who she worked with. If they were the one with prior knowledge then she will probably just get a mark against her that will fall off if she doesn’t have anymore issues along those lines. It is her future that is now in question. If the tutor had prior knowledge then it is a matter of his/her ethics. If she stays quiet and tries to transfer to another school, the ethics violation would cause an issue.
Everyone lies at some point in their life to different degrees, even omission is considered a lie.