<p>Oh yeah, Dartmouth DOES have a business school! Now this makes a bit more sense.</p>
<p>But Collegebound, if you go through the list, you will see that most Northwestern alums are in fact Kellogg alums.</p>
<p>The_prestige, I agree with your analysis. Of the 27 Michigan alums, 16 (60%)completed their undergraduate studies there. That’s a pretty good perecentage if you compare it to many of schools on the list. I did not check how many Princeton alums completed there undergraduate studies at Princeton but like you, I am pretty certain it is more than 16. </p>
<p>However, like I said in my post above, there are two reasons why I think the absolute number matters more in this case:</p>
<p>1) Strength in numbers. The more alums representing a school, the more influence that group of alums has in recruiting efforts.</p>
<p>2) Maybe only 5% of the students at university X are interested in a career in finance compared to 30% of the students at university Y. In such a case, even if university X is 5 times larger than university Y, all other things being equal, university Y should still produce more finance professionals.</p>
<p>A few questions:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>If an employee attended Harvard undergrad and Wharton MBA, are you giving credit to both of those schools in your counting or are you assigning to only one and which one?</p></li>
<li><p>I think that there is pretty broad agreement that the top 10-20 MBA programs dominate placement coming out of graduate business schools at so-called “top” firms. Do you have the data just by undergraduate placement? </p></li>
<li><p>Do you have any data for West Coast-based firms (or for any areas outside of the Northeast)?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>points all well noted Alex.</p>
<p>Hello Hawkette. </p>
<p>Answer to question 1. Yes, if one attended more than one school, both were included.</p>
<p>Answer to question 2. I agree with your statment. I did not break down the numbers by students attending the MBA program vs students attending schools as undergrads. I did so only for Michigan and as pointed above, only 9 of the 27 (exactly one third) are alums of the MBA program.</p>
<p>[The</a> Carlyle Group : Amble, Vishnu](<a href=“http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item9767.html]The”>http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item9767.html)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item5858.html[/url]”>http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item5858.html</a></p>
<p>[The</a> Carlyle Group : Tsou, Wayne Wen-Tsui](<a href=“http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item5869.html]The”>http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item5869.html)</p>
<p>[Bain</a> Capital](<a href=“http://www.baincapital.com/team/index.asp?viewType=Alphabetical&d_Bio_ID=73]Bain”>http://www.baincapital.com/team/index.asp?viewType=Alphabetical&d_Bio_ID=73)</p>
<p>[Bain</a> Capital](<a href=“http://www.baincapital.com/team/index.asp?viewType=Alphabetical&d_Bio_ID=150]Bain”>http://www.baincapital.com/team/index.asp?viewType=Alphabetical&d_Bio_ID=150)</p>
<p>[Bain</a> Capital](<a href=“http://www.baincapital.com/team/index.asp?viewType=Alphabetical&d_Bio_ID=180]Bain”>http://www.baincapital.com/team/index.asp?viewType=Alphabetical&d_Bio_ID=180)</p>
<p>[Bain</a> Capital](<a href=“http://www.baincapital.com/team/index.asp?viewType=Alphabetical&d_Bio_ID=164]Bain”>http://www.baincapital.com/team/index.asp?viewType=Alphabetical&d_Bio_ID=164)</p>
<p>[Bain</a> Capital](<a href=“http://www.baincapital.com/team/index.asp?viewType=Alphabetical&d_Bio_ID=169]Bain”>http://www.baincapital.com/team/index.asp?viewType=Alphabetical&d_Bio_ID=169)</p>
<p>[The</a> Carlyle Group : Bentley, Pam](<a href=“http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item6073.html]The”>http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item6073.html)</p>
<p>[The</a> Carlyle Group : He, George X.](<a href=“http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item6148.html]The”>http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item6148.html)</p>
<p>[The</a> Carlyle Group : Man, Edward](<a href=“http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item5783.html]The”>http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item5783.html)</p>
<p>[The</a> Carlyle Group : Morgan, Kelsey](<a href=“http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item9813.html]The”>http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item9813.html)</p>
<p>[Bain</a> Capital](<a href=“http://www.baincapital.com/team/index.asp?viewType=Alphabetical&d_Bio_ID=110]Bain”>http://www.baincapital.com/team/index.asp?viewType=Alphabetical&d_Bio_ID=110)</p>
<p>In the case of Blackstone, if you go to the link below, look up the following:</p>
<p>[The</a> Blackstone Group - The Team](<a href=“http://www.blackstone.com/team/default.asp]The”>http://www.blackstone.com/team/default.asp)</p>
<p>Amlicke, Bruce (Senior Managing Director)
Stein, William (Senior Managing Director)
Tolley, David (Senior Managing Director)
Rovine, Joshua (Managing Director)
Wee, Jeremy (Principal)</p>
<p>There are your 18 that did not attend the graduate Business school at Michigan. </p>
<p>Answer to question 3. I only looked at the five largest PE firms. Of those, the three largest had bios on their employees, the remaining two didn’t. Are there any West Coast or Southern PE firms you think would offer bios on their employees?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Silver Lake Partners based in Menlo Park, CA.
<a href=“http://www.silverlake.com/content.php?page=team[/url]”>http://www.silverlake.com/content.php?page=team</a></p>
<p>I briefly looked at the management team…Harvard was well represented, but one officer had a JD from Michigan. I did not pull up the profiles of members of their entire investment team, value creation team and administration team.</p>
<p>That may depend on how you define private equity-if you include VC, then clearly there is a lot going on in California and I suspect that the West Coast colleges would come out looking a lot better. For example, KP and SLP undoubtedly have a very strong relationship with many of the California schools. </p>
<p>As for the undergrad question, I have long argued that many students from non-target undergraduate colleges can find their way to Wall Street, PE and otherwise. Frankly, it is probably more difficult to PE than the traditional investment banking firms. Anyway, as midatlmom points out, there is a lot of evidence in your link of broad undergraduate representation. Perhaps not in the same large numbers as some others, but the door is not fully blocked as others have argued. My longstanding point has been that students should focus more on college fit and where they would be happiest and less on which college might more advantageously position them for a 30-minute interview in their senior year. </p>
<p>As for non-NE firms, clearly TPG would be a good one to consider and I suspect you would find a lot of Rice, U Texas and other TX colleges well represented in their Fort Worth HQ. Likewise with the non-NE offices of the NYC-area firms that dominate your list and the industry.</p>
<p>Thanks for the link UCB. I will break down the numbers and share them with the group.</p>
<p>Hawkette, I looked at TPG but they did not list Bios on their employees.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Considering the extremely generous financial aid that the top private schools are now offering, I have to question who is really offering the faster ROI these days. </p>
<p>For example, I strongly suspect that most people would find Harvard to actually be cheaper than their flagship state school. Harvard’s new financial aid policy caps total costs (tuition, room, board) to at most 10% of family income for anybody whose family makes up to $180k (and has the typical assets for such a family income). Hence, such a person would pay $18k a year for everything, all in (i.e. room, board, etc) That same person, if he’s a California resident, would pay $21-25k a year, all in (unless he were to live with relatives). That’s because somebody whose family makes $180k is not going to get any financial aid from Berkeley. The bottom line is that for most California state residents, Berkeley actually costs more than Harvard does. </p>
<p>[Harvard</a> announces sweeping middle-income initiative — The Harvard University Gazette](<a href=“http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2007/12.13/99-finaid.html]Harvard”>http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2007/12.13/99-finaid.html)
[Undergraduate</a> Budgets 07-08](<a href=“http://students.berkeley.edu/fao/ugbudget07-08.html]Undergraduate”>http://students.berkeley.edu/fao/ugbudget07-08.html)</p>
<p>The only people who would have to pay more to attend Harvard rather than Berkeley are the rich, and I doubt that they care about the extra cost anyway. </p>
<p>The bottom line is that, if you want an absolutely fabulous financial deal, and you’re not rich, don’t go to your state school. Go to Harvard. I never thought I would say that, but it’s now true. What I find to be ironic and sad is that public schools purported are supposed to offer a superior financial deal to their state residents. But they’re not, at least, not anymore. The best deals are to be had at, ironically, the top private schools. Strange but true. </p>
<p>Now, of course, I say “glibly” that everybody should just go to a top private school. Obviously not everybody can do that, as only a small percentage will get in. But that statement is actually not glib at all, for it actually illustrates the basic point: the public schools are now (sadly) serving as the backup plans for those students who simply weren’t good enough to get into one of the top private schools, where they would actually be able to pay *less<a href=“unless%20they’re%20rich”>/i</a>. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, grads from the smaller schools also go to diff sectors. Not every Harvard graduate wants to do private equity or IB either. </p>
<p>Now, I think what you meant to say is that the percentage of students at the larger public schools who want to get into PE is lower than that at the top private schools. That is probably true, but I doubt that it is by enough to compensate for the large differences in absolute numbers.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yeah but strength in numbers also translates into weakness in numbers. It’s a double-edged sword. Sure, having more grads in the industry provides more recruiting influence, hence creating more potential spots for you. That’s the pro But having more students interested in the industry also means more people from your school competing with you for those spots. That’s the con. Whether the pros outweigh the con is unclear. For example, it doesn’t really matter if Michigan alums can provide 10 available spots for Michigan grads if 20 of them are trying to get those spots. Any way you cut it, only half of them are going to get an offer. It’s far better to have your old alums provide only 1 available spot that only 1 person is trying to get. That way, everybody who wants a job will get one.</p>
<p>That’s why I think it is important to scale for per-capita figures, because it is a better depiction of how many spots will be created, relative to how many people are trying to nab those spots.</p>
<p>Sakky, as I said above, unless a study is conducted to establish the level of competition for those jobs on any given campus, one should not assume that just because a school is large, a greater number of students will wish to enter the field of finance.</p>
<p>Not to digress too much from the topic of this thread, but Sakky does raise salient points, not unnoticed by Robert Birgeneau, Chancellor of UC Berkeley.
[Focus</a> on issues: Affordability and access in public higher education](<a href=“http://www.berkeley.edu/news/features/afford/]Focus”>Focus on issues: Affordability and access in public higher education)
<a href=“http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/regents/regmeet/jan08/e2pp.pdf[/url]”>http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/regents/regmeet/jan08/e2pp.pdf</a></p>
<p>I have added Silverlake to the list. The overall landscape remains much the same, but the more the better. </p>
<h1>1 Harvard University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 33
-Carlyle 80
-Bain 65
-Silverlake 16
TOTAL: 194</p>
<h1>2 University of Pennsylvania</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 26
-Carlyle 45
-Bain 14
-Silverlake 7
TOTAL: 92</p>
<h1>3 Stanford University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 9
-Carlyle 26
-Bain 9
-Silverlake 11
TOTAL: 55</p>
<h1>4 Columbia University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 16
-Carlyle 23
-Bain 4
-Silverlake 0
TOTAL: 43</p>
<h1>5 Dartmouth College</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 8
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 15
-Silverlake 0
TOTAL: 35</p>
<h1>6 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 6
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 2
TOTAL: 29</p>
<h1>6 Princeton University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 4
-Carlyle 15
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 3
TOTAL: 29</p>
<h1>8 New York University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 10
-Carlyle 17
-Bain 0
-Silverlake 1
TOTAL: 28</p>
<h1>9 Cornell University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 6
-Carlyle 13
-Bain 5
-Silverlake 2
TOTAL: 26</p>
<h1>9 Duke University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 4
TOTAL: 26</p>
<h1>9 University of Chicago</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 12
-Carlyle 10
-Bain 3
-Silverlake 1
TOTAL: 26</p>
<h1>9 Yale University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 5
-Carlyle 11
-Bain 8
-Silverlake 2
TOTAL: 26</p>
<h1>13 Georgetown University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 3
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 2
TOTAL: 24</p>
<h1>14 Northwestern University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 5
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 2
-Silverlake 1
TOTAL: 22</p>
<h1>14 University of Califiornia-Berkeley</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 13
-Bain 2
-Silverlake 6
TOTAL: 22</p>
<h1>16 Massachusetts Institute of Technology</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 5
-Silverlake 3
TOTAL: 21</p>
<h1>17 University of Virginia</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 3
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 3
-Silverlake 0
TOTAL: 18</p>
<h1>18 University of Texas-Austin</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 2
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 0
-Silverlake 1
TOTAL: 17</p>
<h1>19 Brown University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 5
-Bain 4
-Silverlake 3
TOTAL: 13</p>
<p>It’s really not a very interesting question whether a larger % of people from Yale UG get in than from Michigan UG. Obviously the students at Yale are stronger on average, so they will do better, but that doesn’t indicate the effect of the Yale degree. </p>
<p>What we really need to know is what chances the same person would have at either of the schools. </p>
<p>Looking at NMSs in the other thread, despite fewer total students, there are more top students at the top privates than the top state schools. From these numbers alone it would seem possible that a larger percentage of those top students are actually successful in PE at the state schools than at the top privates. Obviously there is the problem for calculation that some of the spots at these firms are getting taken by non “top students”, but it’s still imperative to adjust by the quality of the competition.</p>
<p>Of course, the numbers here don’t allow comparison of UGs, since it is mixed in with graduate schools of varying quality. Comparing UGs for people with advanced degrees is pretty worthless, though, anyway, since the effect of the business school is surely dominant.</p>
<p>I have added Warburg Pincus and Providence Equity Partners to the list. Again, there isn’t much of a change at the top, but we nw have stats on 6 of the top 10 PE firms with a combined 1,000 or so employees. </p>
<h1>1 Harvard University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 33
-Carlyle 80
-Bain 65
-Silverlake 16
-Warburg Pincus 22
-Providence Equity Partners 11
TOTAL: 227</p>
<h1>2 University of Pennsylvania</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 26
-Carlyle 45
-Bain 14
-Silverlake 7
-Warburg Pincus 13
-Providence Equity Partners 7
TOTAL: 112</p>
<h1>3 Stanford University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 9
-Carlyle 26
-Bain 9
-Silverlake 11
-Warburg Pincus 3
-Providence Equity Partners 6
TOTAL: 64</p>
<h1>4 Columbia University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 16
-Carlyle 23
-Bain 4
-Silverlake 0
-Warburg Pincus 4
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 48</p>
<h1>5 Dartmouth College</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 8
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 15
-Silverlake 0
-Warburg Pincus 3
-Providence Equity Partners 0
TOTAL: 38</p>
<h1>6 Princeton University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 4
-Carlyle 15
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 3
-Warburg Pincus 2
-Providence Equity Partners 5
TOTAL: 36</p>
<h1>7 New York University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 10
-Carlyle 17
-Bain 0
-Silverlake 1
-Warburg Pincus 3
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 32</p>
<h1>8 Duke University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 4
-Warbug Pincus 2
-Providence Equity Partners 3
TOTAL: 31</p>
<h1>8 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 6
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 2
-Warburg Pincus 2
-Providence Equity Partners 0
TOTAL: 31</p>
<h1>10 Yale University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 5
-Carlyle 11
-Bain 8
-Silverlake 2
-Warburg Pincus 4
-Providence Equity Partners 0
TOTAL: 30</p>
<h1>11 Cornell University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 6
-Carlyle 13
-Bain 5
-Silverlake 2
-Warburg Pincus 2
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 29</p>
<h1>11 University of Chicago</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 12
-Carlyle 10
-Bain 3
-Silverlake 1
-Warburg Pincus 2
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 29</p>
<h1>13 Georgetown University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 3
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 2
-Warburg Pincus 1
-Providence Equity Partners 3
TOTAL: 28</p>
<h1>14 University of Califiornia-Berkeley</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 13
-Bain 2
-Silverlake 6
-Warburg Pincus 2
-Providence Equity Partners 2
TOTAL: 26</p>
<h1>14 Northwestern University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 5
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 2
-Silverlake 1
-Warburg Pincus 3
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 26</p>
<h1>16 Massachusetts Institute of Technology</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 5
-Silverlake 3
-Warburg Pincus 3
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 25</p>
<h1>17 University of Virginia</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 3
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 3
-Silverlake 0
-Warburg Pincus 2
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 21</p>
<h1>18 University of Texas-Austin</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 2
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 0
-Silverlake 1
-Warburg Pincus 1
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 19</p>
<h1>19 Brown University</h1>
<p>-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 5
-Bain 4
-Silverlake 3
-Warburg Pincus 0
-Providence Equity Partners 4
TOTAL: 17</p>
<p>alexandre,</p>
<p>i just went to PEP’s website and just saw that Ronald A. Collins went to Northwestern but you have zero for Northwestern. I swear I just randomly browsed only 3 profiles just because I was curious what typically goes into a profile. ;)</p>
<p>alexandre,
I know that this is an awful lot of work to do all of this searching, but I think it would be a heckuva lot more valuable if you broke out the undergrads from the grads. It really is apples and oranges you’re putting together here unless there is some point that you are making that I am missing. By combining both grad and undergrad, a jumbled picture emerges and certain schools, like Brown which has no graduate business school, probably gets viewed as a lesser player than it actually is.</p>
<p>Did Alexandre actually click every single profile? Wow…that’s A LOT of work!!!</p>