@dstark Does rule apply to me? I should have just admitted nothing, implied I had read and memorized those posts. And simply said something like ‘Most elite college HAVE disnvited speakers.’ Which is no more or less true than ‘Most elite colleges have never disinvited anybody over the last 15 years.’ Just opinions.
Seconded, @dstark – you’ll be missed, @NickFlynn .
No, @PetulaClark , claims about the actions of most elite colleges are not opinions; they’re claims. And verifiable/debunkable ones. The fact is clear: most elite colleges have not disinvited anybody over the last 15 years.
Yeah - NickFlynn: Please don’t go away. Please just take a break and come back. Most of us can’t do this as a full-time job. When my grandbaby arrives, I’m going on vacation.
: )
You just barely even got here! Consider just taking a leave of absence.
@Ohiodad51 * just to set story straight son was not beaten by a gang
That was our families initial reaction too… but think about it - son still had to go to that school for 2 more years… we didn’t want an oppositional school battle in the papers and private details about my son aired… we wanted him to like/ feel safe in his school and with his future teachers there. We didn’t want other teachers to alienate him… The teachers in that school are very close … remember the school administration didn’t even reprimand the teacher… the admin said as long as teacher could show educational intent/purpose it was all perfectly acceptable…
Luckily AP has a unintentional bias clause in its classes that prohibit any AP teacher or AP class from being conducted in any way that creates a bias even an unintentional one where students can’t achieve their maximum potential in that class. So son negotiated heads up warnings, only showing small sections of the film, and not using examples of only one particular group for hateful rhetoric… (misery loves company :)) ) Son is not afraid of free speech but there is a line.
For sons privacy I am not going to go into what we did… suffice it to say he (and we) were/are very proactive and the outcome has been a positive experience for my son (beyond what he could have imagined). He showed leadership and made the school (and other schools )safer for himself and for kids that come after him.
He has already had one roommate in college whose parents refused to let their student room with him bc he is gay.
He is not afraid of free speech, but he would not choose to attend a college without safe spaces (he hates the term too- it is rather childish) for LGBTQ students. Before choosing a college we looked at all reviews, campus pride ratings and systems in place at the institution to make it a pro lgbtq experience. I have to admit we researched the last few years speakers…
@Pizzagirl Its rather infuriating that you are trying to invalidate what he experienced… would you like me to post the link to the video… the video that BTW we couldn’t get EVEN ONE school admin to watch in its entirety bc no one wants to watch that either…and I didn’t hear one other parent complaint. Actually the school used that argument too that no one else complained…
@PetulaClark, I knew you didn’t read the link after reading your prior post. The fact that you posted the FIRE link made me 
Why don’t you go read through your FIRE link and share what you find?
@runswimyoga “He has already had one roommate in college whose parents refused to let their student room with him bc he is gay.”
Back for one question: Does Penn have a housing application that asks about sexual orientation, and aren’t there dorms for LGBTQ kids who want them? Penn is rated the #1 most friendly LGBTQ college in the USA. I will be surprised if they don’t take good care of your son. If he is unhappy at Penn, he may not be happy anywhere…But, I hope he is happy there! Penn seems like a quite tolerant place, but I guess there will always be exceptions.
@MOMANDBOYSTWO
Penn doesn’t ask about sexual orientation on their housing app and yes they do have optional gender neutral housing! Penn does have an optional question on the common app that asks about sexual orientation and allyship.
Son didn’t choose any special housing- son and other student agreed to room together- when the other student’s parents checked out son on Facebook /google searched him they freaked and made their son pull out of room. Son then went random in room selection. He loves his roommates. It has only been NSO and 1 day of classes but so far so good. (I am seeing pictures of frat parties on snapchat gasp talk about fear!) I am certain he will (hopefully) have a positive experience at Penn and if he doesn’t he has the tools in place and support systems set up to make it one anyway. Support systems are important.
Son doesn’t always agree with some SJW and the activism… He hates what happened at Creating Change in Chicago last year… so we/ he are not saying they can’t go too far… in some cases I agree w some people here - (not sure what he would say to this) so I do get where people are coming from…
But I 100% feel the need for some lines drawn in (captive) audience spaces (wishful thinking on my part) … heads up or trigger warnings and safe spaces … along w diversity in faculty … He has never met a gay teacher yet… Its important to see representation… I know Penn students asked Penn for more LGBTQ teacher representation or something like that and the school agreed.
I wish your son lots of luck too - Cornell is a fabulous school!
PS sorry for spelling/ grammar errors I failed English
@NickFlynn - thanks so much for responding before you checked out. I really appreciate it. I’m glad to understand that we are actually on the same page fundamentally. I feel like I can’t voice an opinion as to the intent/significance of the letter because I don’t have enough background as to what may have provoked it and whether that has anything to do with donor pandering or trying to indirectly dampen student activists. I took it at what I saw as its face value – that being to try and prevent some of the more sensationalized happenings on other campuses from happening at U of C – but I understand that may be my naivete showing.
What would a university with safe spaces look like vs a university without safe spaces in terms of what is and is not permitted?
So let’s take the administration of a university with safe spaces (lets call it Safe Space College). Which of the following behaviors for example should the University administration of Safe Space College forbid by statute
- Stating in a classroom that one is opposed to affirmative action
- Stating in classroom that being LGBTQ is a choice
- Displaying a confederate flag in ones private dorm room
- Displaying a confederate flag on ones backpack openly in a classroom
- Stating in a classroom that the theory of a campus rape culture is an insidious plot by radical feminists
- Stating publicly that one believes abortion is murder
- Stating publicly that abortion should be legal in most cases
- Stating in a classroom that campus rape culture exists at Safe Space College because most men are by nature predators
- Burning an American flag on campus
- Disrupting a speaker thus making it impossible for the speaker to continue
- Trying to get a particular faculty member/staff/administration official fired under threat of a boycott or extensive unrest on campus
- Charging publicly that the administration is racist, classist, sexist and homophobic
These are just some of the “controversial behaviors” I could think of. Would any of these be prohibited at Safe Space College?
If some of these behaviors are banned at Safe Space College, would they be permitted in “No Safe Spaces College”?
There’s a bit of that occurring at my alma mater with one particular faculty member…but not by the usual suspects.
Instead, the alums who are most vociferous in calling for the firing of the faculty member concerned tend to lean conservative or moderates and the loudest outcries have spanned the political spectrum including conservative newsmedia because she has been making anti-Semitic and exceedingly off-the-deep end conspiracy theory posts on her social media pages.
Personally, she would be one individual I’d be concerned about colleges/universities inviting to speak at college/university functions because she falls into the same camp IMO as speakers who seriously argue that the moon is made of green cheese and astronauts/scientists who use scientific evidence like moon rocks to argue otherwise are on the take from the dairy lobby.
Part of the marketplace of ideas is that institutions…especially respectable elite universites should exercise some discretion in selecting speakers…including being mindful of conferring some legitimacy…however unintended for the speaker’s discredited theories/ideas.
@CollegeAngst - “safe spaces” are not entire colleges. Most safe spaces have specific concerns that they consider unsafe for their participants, so there is no hard and fast bright line for you here. But more importantly, hypotheticals aren’t particularly illuminating in discussions of real-world concerns.
Yes, this nutty professor apparently believes Jews were behind 9/11 and the Charlie Hebdo terror attack in France. That she believes and writes this does not seem to be in dispute. I have no opinion whether she should be fired or not. Frankly though, I’m surprised that she isn’t being condemned by everyone, not just those silly conservatives and moderates. Oh well.
However, it does appear that you might have missed the major protest at Oberlin that occurred this year. Here is just one paragraph of the protesters’ list of demands (it goes on for some 14 pages)
The students seem to have threatened to respond forcefully (whatever that means) if their demands weren’t met -
The president responded by telling them them to go jump in a lake (not a quote).
Oberlin seems to be a pretty crappy place if you are an Africana student -
Ok. I will condemn the nutty professor.
Actually, she was pretty much condemned by alums, faculty, and students across the political spectrum…just that the conservative and moderate alums and conservative newsmedia were most vociferous in not only condemning her…but calling for her firing.
In short, the calls for a faculty member being fired for what some consider “exercising her free speech” on social media isn’t exclusively the domain of the left contrary to some posters on this thread.
Seems like this went just about the way you’d like it to go: The students made demands, the administration considered them and decided not to comply. Unless, of course, you’re suggesting the students’ free speech be curtailed and that they shouldn’t be allowed to protest and make demands…?
Fair enough cobrat. I am glad to hear that people across the board at Oberlin condemned her rantings. Whether or not her conduct rises to the level of being fired should be a decision for the faculty.
FWIW, I do not think anyone in this thread claimed that calls for firing for legitimate exercises of free expression were exclusively the domain of the left. If they did then they are wrong. I do think some people (including myself) are claiming that nowadays these calls are mostly coming from the left.
Things are quite different than from my days in college back in the stone age. The biggest opponents of free expression seemed to be on the right then. To me, it’s quite bizarre that the two sides have flipped. I have my own guesses as to why this shift occurred, but whatever.
Thanks for playing, Nick, but not sure that you actually answered the question that I posed, bcos, as you admit in #870,
“Seems like this went just about the way you’d like it to go: The students made demands, the administration considered them and decided not to comply. Unless, of course, you’re suggesting the students’ free speech be curtailed and that they shouldn’t be allowed to protest and make demands…?”
Of course they should be “allowed” to say whatever they like (within the bounds of civility). Makes you kind of wonder how bright they really are, however, if they think that the most effective strategy is to “make demands” as opposed to “request an audience to discuss our proposed alternatives to …” Like they haven’t figured out that all that does is come across as entitled and whiny, as if the presence of their demands means that everyone has to capitulate?
Is it surprising that people between the ages of 18-22 aren’t always the most reasonable among us? Their brains aren’t even fully myelenated for crying out loud.