Unsupportive parent

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>I really need some help as I’m in a horrible situation right now. Up to last year, my mom had always been pretty supportive of my music endeavors, but when I started doing my music school applications in November she began to become increasingly negative in her attitude toward me. My dad is very supportive of my plans, so I sent out my applications regardless. But now the prescreen results and audition times are coming in and my mom’s becoming more and more difficult. She says that she won’t let me go to the auditions, and then she claimed she wouldn’t pay a single cent towards tuition if I happen to get into any of the music schools. One audition is in Texas-- Rice U Shepherd school-- and she refuses to buy the plane tickets. She says she no longer supports my pursuing a music career and she’s been constantly telling me every day how dumb I am to give up my academic goals and pursue a “useless” music degree. She says I’m not good enough in music and that no one will come to my concerts, and that I’m throwing away everything she’s paid for (AP classes, SAT prep classes, etc.) and pursuing something that she never wanted me to do. </p>

<p>Now she’s forcing me to apply to Ivy League schools before the Jan. 1 deadline when I don’t even want to. I actually am applying to many double degree programs (Oberlin, NEC-Tufts, Peabody-JHU, Northwestern U) but she says those liberal arts schools are nothing and I won’t get enough financial aid from them anyways. She wants me to get a full scholarship, and she says only Ivy League schools will give me enough money.<br>
All my classmates and Asian friends are getting early decision acceptances to Ivies, and she berates me daily about how dumb I am in choosing music and “why can’t you be like them” and such. She claims that even if I got into Juilliard she wouldn’t let me attend. She said a couple days ago that music is for dumb people who can’t do anything else, and since my academics are so good I’m just wasting everything and ruining my own future. </p>

<p>My piano teacher thinks highly of me and says I have a lot of music talent, but my mom thinks that unless you’re a prodigy, there’s no use in trying to get a music career. I’ve explained to her countless times that music is my passion and I want to pursue it in college. I’ve let her read the double degree articles on Peabody’s website, and I’ve told her that I wouldn’t be giving up my academics since I’m pursuing double-degree programs. But she just doesn’t buy it, and she flings insults at me every day about how I’ll end up in a minimum wage job and marry an equally poor and dumb musician, and then she insults my dad for supporting me. I don’t know what I should do at this point since my mom’s extremely stubborn. Should I just try to ignore her and get my dad to take me to auditions? Or is there some way I can get her to change her mind? Sorry for the rant but I would really appreciate any advice—I can’t go a single day now without getting into some kind of argument with her.</p>

2

<p>Cerabellum, I feel for you! Obviously you are good enough musically and academically to pass the Rice prescreen. I’m fairly sure “dumb” students don’t get into Rice.
Is a full scholarship the most important thing in your situation? I don’t know how realistic it is to expect a full scholarship from any school, regardless of what subject you study.
Maybe others can offer more in terms of help, but I wanted to let you know there is a sympathetic ear out here!</p>

3

<p>Sorry to hear you’re having a hard time at home.</p>

<p>You can pursue music at many of the Ivy-League schools, and places you are already applying.</p>

<p>Harvard/NEC–one of my daughter’s friends is in both programs
Columbia/Juilliard
Rochester/Eastman?</p>

<p>And you’re already applying to JHU/Peabody and Northwestern.</p>

<p>You could always travel to auditions by yourself, or with your father.</p>

4

<p>I am sorry your mother is being so difficult. It sounds like she has a lot of pre-conceived notions about what a good education is and most of that is based on her own gut and not about actual experience with any of these institutions or knowledge about what goes on there. Has she spent time at Harvard or Yale? Can she tell you specifically how these institutions are better than Oberlin or Tufts or Rice? What data does she have that says that going to to an Ivy means that they will have a better future than somebody who goes to any of the other schools on your list? What proof does she have that students at Conservatories are less intelligent than those at other schools? Does she know that graduates of Conservatories have one of the highest acceptance rates to medical school.</p>

<p>Do you have a counselor at your school who could act as a mediator and talk to you and your mom about this? Your mom’s sudden change of heart might have more do to with her own emotions about separation and your leaving home. Or maybe a clergy member or even your pediatrician? It sounds like you need somebody besides your father to intervene and help your mom process what she is feeling about this and what her fears and concerns are regarding your future. </p>

<p>There is one thing that she is right about. Ivy League Schools like Harvard and Yale have big enough endowments that if your family makes less then 100K a year you are likely to get a generous scholarship and help with tuition. And if money is a serious issue then that is something to think about and probably should of been on the table well before you started applying to schools. Meanwhile all you can do is apply and then wait and look at the financial situation once you get accepted.</p>

5

<p>I definitely second StacJip’s suggestions. And the great thing is how your father supports you. If going to the school/any counsellor doesn’t work out, or your mother refuses to come, I would do this: </p>

<p>Go up to her in a moment when she’s not all fired up. Tell her that you want her to just listen to what you have to say. Then tell her, briefly, that pursuing music is your dream but that you also want to get a proper education in order to do something else if necessary. You don’t need her guidance or support, because you’re becoming a grown man/woman, and that she has to come to terms with the fact that you’re about to become an independent person who has to make their own choices. It would be great to have her support - or at least approval - but if she doesn’t want to give you that then that is her choice and problem. If she wants to talk to you in a proper manner without name-calling and using hurtful words, then that would be splendid. If not - then no talking. Thank you for listening to me.</p>

<p>What your mother is doing, is psychological terror and harassment. It’s not quite nice, and in my country (Norway) we have laws against that which might sentence her to huge fines and even time in prison. I don’t recommend you to see if you can put her to trial (who would want that for their family member anyway?), but let her know that the name-calling and hurtful words just aren’t okay. No one likes being bullied. However, that is what your mum sounds to do to you. Try to do something, and tell her how you feel about it - not college/music, but the words! It’s not easy, so I want to wish you the best of luck! And perhaps I’ll see you around at auditions? =)</p>

6

<p>

It sounds like your mom is having anxiety for you based on hearing the positive results of your classmates’ (and probably her friends’ children’s) early acceptances. I’m so sorry you are going through this. It is true that the Ivies have large endowments. They don’t give merit aid, however, so if your income is over the minimum limit you won’t get a scholarship to an Ivy. Most of the music schools do give merit aid, so your changes of getting a scholarship may be better if you stick to music. </p>

<p>On thing you could tell your mom is that if you have multiple acceptances with merit aid, you will have a lot to choose from in April. Perhaps the idea of having a lot of choices will appeal to her, and she will soften up about letting you do auditions. Have you considered applying to Bard, which offers a 5 year, double degree? You would have your music degree in the conservatory <em>and</em> a degree in an academic subject. Bard does offer merit scholarships-- perhaps that idea would placate mom?</p>

7

<p>Cerabellum, I’m really sorry that you have to go through this. It’s definitely no fun! I went through a very similar situation when I was applying for undergrad programs. I was applying to music school instead of a high class academic program somewhere fancy since that’s exactly what my siblings did. They all do very well, have fancy degrees, and work really nice jobs and I was expected to do the same. When I told my parents I wanted to do music, they both refused to support me. It actually caused a lot of tension within my family. I had family and close family friends telling me everyday how stupid I was for making such a decision, didn’t speak to my dad for about 6-8 months, actually stayed elsewhere for a bit of time, and paid for all my auditions/apps out of my own pocket. I ended up at a smaller liberal arts school where I’m paying very little since I’m paying my own way through college. I actually almost transferred to Northwestern after my sophomore year but ultimately decided to stay where I was and finish things up there. I’m now applying to master of music programs and am getting ready to start auditions in a month. My parents are still somewhat uneasy about me pursuing music, but it’s been a complete 180 for the most part. They come to all my performances for the most part, even the open mics/shows I play and are pretty excited about the idea of grad school.</p>

<p>I think StacJip’s suggestion is a good one. Has your piano teacher talked to your mom about all of this? Your parents want what’s best for you and they’re going to think that they know exactly what that is. Your mom will come around eventually. It took my parents nearly 3 1/2 years but I’m thankful that they finally did. Best of luck and maybe I’ll run into you at Rice auditions!</p>

8

<p>Cerabellum, I know how you must feel right now. Up until I actually decided that I wanted to major in music, my parents loved that I was so passionate about music. But when I decided the summer before my junior year that I wanted to pursue music as a career, they became angry. And now, I’m in a similar situation to you. Both of my parents are CPAs and very “left-brained”. They had always hoped that I would go to our state university, major in business, and get a good job. Neither of them understand why I would “waste” my good SAT/ACT/AP scores to get a college degree that they think will leave me homeless after graduation. </p>

<p>After about a year of constant arguing (I’m a senior now), my mom is finally at least trying to understand my decision, whereas my dad still threatens that he won’t pay for college if I major in performance. Since I’ve found that every time I try to talk to my dad we get in an argument, my mom is the only person I can talk to. My mom will be coming with me on all of my audition trips. </p>

<p>The best advice I can give you is to stick close to your dad, and try to tune out your mom. Once your acceptances start rolling in, I bet she’ll have a change of heart. And keep this in mind: "Parents tell their children that they want them to be happy. That’s a lie. They want them to be safe.” It might be hard to see it right now, but I bet your mom (and my dad) just want us to be safe. </p>

<p>PS-Maybe I’ll see you at the Rice audition?</p>

9

<p>Tell your mom that music majors have had the highest rate of acceptance at medical school of any group, at 66% a few years back when I read the statistic. The intelligence, discipline and focus required are most welcome at any grad or professional school or work place.</p>

<p>This sounds like a cultural thing that might best be addressed by some sort of counselor who understands the conflicting values between generations. It sounds like your mom is not sophisticated in her knowledge of schools (LAC’s for instance) or how majors may or may not correlate with career. It also sounds like it may be about pride, or prestige, a little- but I cannot tell from a post online.</p>

<p>Maybe you could apply to an Ivy or two to satisfy her, to double degree programs and to conservatories/music schools and then choose in late April. Perhaps your mom can understand the idea of trying out all options before deciding, but if not, then your Dad can support your travel to auditions.</p>

10

<p>I think your mother has a lot of preconceived notions of things based on what others have told her and her own limited experience of the world. She is correct that music is a difficult path and piano especially so, but outside of that quite frankly she is dead wrong, but you probably won’t convince her, it is like the parents, especially among Asians, who think that if you don’t get into an Ivy, especially an HYP, your life is over and you are going to be digging ditches for a living or something <em>sigh</em>. My son’s pre-college program is full of a lot of talented music students, and a lot of them end up in ivies in numbers that would make most prep schools green with envy, so much for musicians being dummies (I also doubt it would do much good to tell her that musicians in general tend to have IQ’s way above norms). </p>

<p>Here are my suggestions:</p>

<p>-Enlist dad, but if mom is the iron fist in the crying towel, it may not work well, to wear her down</p>

<p>-The joint program idea isn’t a bad one, but I can tell you that all the programs mentioned are difficult to get into, I think Harvard/NEC admits maybe 1 or 2 students a year, Juilliard/Columbia is difficult (handful of students), I can’t speak for JHU/Peabody but I suspect it is difficult as well.</p>

<p>-The other option is the one a lot of my son’s friends end up doing, they go to a prestigious (read Ivy) school, and still take music while there. I can’t speak for piano, but on orchestral instruments I am all but convinced the schools look for talented musicians and when differentiating among a lot of kids with impeccable academic credentials, it seems to help them get int. So you can apply to school that makes mom happy, and continue studying music privately while doing the academic thing…and if you still want to do music you could apply at the grad level, where the rules are very different in some ways. </p>

<p>You mom is dead wrong, I know a ton of people who were music majors, conservatories, places like Rice, Northwestern, etc, who are now working in careers in IT, financial analysis, quants, traders, securities analysts, you name it. I suspect, though, like a lot of people she doesn’t understand that a lot of college degrees are roughly equal to a music degree in terms of job relevance…and assumes that college is about studying something like engineering or comp sci or business or whatever to get that impressive job…and I doubt you can change that.</p>

<p>Your best hope is either Dad can help, or maybe the option of going to a school your mom approves of and keeping with the piano. My son’s teacher went to Harvard, not conservatory, studied privately then got a fulbright scholarship to study with a top notch european pedagogue, so options are available to you to keep with your passion and keep the peace:)</p>

11

<p>Hi,
I can understand your mom very well as a same music mom.
Please do not consider she doesn’t love you. Actually she loves you so much and worry about you much more than you are.
Actually, I had same worry for a long time and now even though my son is accepted as ED. I found out there are many ways to get financial support including scholarship, competition award etc., and I think he can at least survive as a musician. However, it depends how much you work hard, how much you are creative and what kind of connection you have. What I am sure is that there will be no relax to live as a musician. During holy day vacation, his sibling took a full rest but my music son is keeping to practice for several hours a day.</p>

<p>Your mom will accept you later but do not forget she loves you so much.</p>

12

<p>I understand the cultural attitudes that may be in play here, especially if you are Asian. I agree with Meekchun, that your mother loves you very much - she is just worried. I would ask her to speak to your private teacher and hear an assesment of your “chances” as a music major and a discussion of the opportunities available for you - from performance, to collaborative piano and coaching, as well as teaching. And make sure you apply for every scholarship available to keep your expenses down.</p>

13

<p>Just to add that it is true that financial aid at Ivies is amazing. Some other colleges and universities also have great aid, and you and your mom can check how good by using the financial aid calculator that is now required to be on every school’s website. A conservatory affiliated with a college or university will probably have better aid than freestanding ones.</p>

<p>Double degree programs between a university and conservatory can involve extra costs ($5-7K)as well, which can sometimes be avoided, if need be, by going to the university that offers aid and then studying privately with the conservatory teacher.</p>

<p>You have already read about BA versus BM versus double degree, so I won’t go over that ground, but as a BA in music or in anything else, you can also continue private study and perform in extracurriculars or professionally.</p>

<p>If your mom can meet you halfway about studying music, maybe there can be a middle ground that helps her worries and also accomplishes your goals, in a way that your family can afford.</p>

14

<p>So sorry for your struggle. It was heartbreaking to read your conflict with your mom and her harsh criticisms about musicians. When someone has a passion for music, it can seem like a calling, not a choice. I also realize that music is a tough career, and your mom is worried, and her anxiety is coming out through anger. I agree with compmom that some of this may be cultural, and that seeking out some advice from your teacher or a counselor familiar with your background may be useful.</p>

<p>My son is a music major and is very aware that he will need to support himself when he graduates. Maybe you can suggest to your mom that even if you major in music, you would consider looking into areas related to music ed., theory and composition, an academic career or some other more stable career to appease her so that she at least allows you to go to the auditions. </p>

<p>Good luck and let us know what happens.</p>

15

<p>Thank you to everyone who replied-- your posts have been very encouraging and helpful. Gyoun and ekviola, it’s comforting to know that there are other people who have gone through (or are going through) the same situation. </p>

<p>Yes, I am Asian, and my parents are engineers/math majors. My mom has always wanted me to go to an Ivy League school, and because I have the stats to get in, my choice to become a musician was (and still is) rather shocking to her. </p>

<p>But I talked to my mom about it, and she’s agreed to a compromise. I can go audition for the music schools-- she has even agreed to take me to Oberlin and CIM in February since she is free that weekend-- but I will also have to apply to her “list of Ivies.” I guess that’s what I will be doing all break now, heh. </p>

<p>But at least we won’t argue about this anymore until April when all the acceptances and financial offers come on. Truth be told, I really don’t want to think of what will happen then if I have to choose between her choice or my choice, but everything’s relatively fine for now. Thank you again for all the advice.</p>

16

<p>Cerabellum - make sure her list of Ivies includes Princeton and Yale - both of which are great schools for musical students. You’ll be able to access wonderful piano professors there - or you can study privately in NYC (I know many students at both schools who do that.) Also, the school orchestras are top quality. If you want to go to grad school for an MM in piano, you would still be able to do it. There is also the Columbia/Juilliard joint program where you could take lessons at Juilliard. So, even if you went to an Ivy to please your parents it doesn’t necessarily mean sacrificing your music. Princeton even offers an abroad year with one of the top conservatories in London.</p>

17

<p>I agree with Spirit’s post, I know friends of my S who have gone to Columbia and Princeton, take private lessons with high level teachers and do music at school. The Columbia/Princeton joint program is a possibility, the basic one is where you take lessons at Juilliard and can do chamber, while doing your Bachelors at Columbia…once in that, you can apply to the more advanced program, which basically allows you to finish you Columbia degree and then get you MM at Juilliard when you are done with columbia. The initial program is difficult to get into and the other one even more so (information is on Columbia’s website)…but even if you don’t get into the joint program(s), you could always go to Columbia and take private lessons with a teacher at Juilliard, MSM, Mannes or maybe even privately with a performer who teachers…</p>

<p>If you mom is hesitant to let you go to an Ivy and still play music while studying something else, you can tell her that applying to an ivy with a music background is a big plus that kids with strong musical backgrounds have an edge there…the point is, if you end up going the Ivy route you don’t have to give up music, and these days, a lot of music students end up getting a masters, anyway:)</p>

18

<p>I’m glad the you were able to come to some sort of compromise with your mother. I speak from experience as my mother reacted the pretty much the same way when I wanted to go to music school instead of becoming a lawyer. She told me I was on my own and only helped a little at the insistence of my father. I went on to what most musicians would consider a successful career though my parents only saw one or two high profile concerts in twenty years and basically avoided the subject of my profession. On her deathbed (literally) my mother told me she was ashamed of how she had been and that it was great regret of her life. Straightening out her things after she passed I found a three ring notebook she had filled with press clipping spanning twenty years about whatever band I was touring with etc. She had been following things after all. It was so sad. No matter what you end up doing professionally don’t ever stop playing. Ravel can be the same joy on a concert stage or in a living room.</p>

19

<p>jb, that is a really powerful story. Cerabellum, if, in April, when decision time comes around and your mom becomes difficult: tell mom how much you love and respect her, that you’d like to stay close with her throughout your life, tell her about this thread and show her jb’s post. Emphasize that you don’t want the same thing to happen in your family. Good luck with your auditions and applications, and let us know what happens.</p>

20

<p>This may be before your time but the father of saxophonist Kenny G made him major in something practical so that when (not if) his foolish ideas of becoming a musician did not pan out he would have a more realistic way of making a living. He graduated magna cum laude as an accounting major. To this day I don’t believe the name he has made for himself is as one of the world’s greatest accountants.</p>