Updated College Admissions Info

College Search & Selection
1

<p>collegeboard has recently updated most of the statistics for 2007 admissions cycle</p>

<p>Some of the notables:</p>

<p>Harvard: 1400-1590, Acceptance rate 9 percent
Yale, 1400-1590, Acceptance rate 10 percent
Princeton, 1390-1580, Acceptance rate 10 percent
MIT, 1380-1560, Acceptance rate of 12 percent
Stanford, 1340-1550, Acceptance rate of 10 percent
Penn, 1330-1520, Acceptance rate of 16 percent
Duke, 1340-1540, Acceptance rate of 23 percent
Chicago, 1330-1530, Acceptance rate of 35 percent
Rice, 1310-1530, Acceptance rate of 25 percent
WUSTL, 1370-1530, Acceptance rate of 17 percent
Gtown, 1300-1490, Acceptance rate of 21 percent
Northwestern, 1350-1520, Acceptance rate of 27 percent
Cornell, 1290-1500, Acceptance rate of 21 percent
Columbia, Not updated Yet
Brown, Not updated yet, but on its website, it says SAT range for most recent class is 1330-1530
Dartmouth from CDS, is 1330-1550</p>

<p>Would some be able to rank these schools in order of highest SAT average midpoint?</p>

2

<p>
[quote]
Would some be able to rank these schools in order of highest SAT average midpoint?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, although U.S. News and the Education Trust both attempt to do that. That's an invalid procedure, because the reported figures (per NACAC principles) are simply the 25th percentile and 75th percentile levels of scores. The exact distribution of scores in an enrolled class can't be determined with enough precision from those figures to allow a valid comparison of SAT score midpoints, even section by section, much less for SAT composite scores.</p>

3

<p>The one observation that I have: Duke and Northwestern has become increasingly close in terms of admissions difficulty. Compare an average SAT midpoint of 1440 for Duke with a 1435 for Northwestern. The difference is acceptance rate is only 4 percent.</p>

4

<p>what do people think?</p>

5

<p>Group 1: 1470-1495 Median</p>

<p>Harvard: 1400-1590, Acceptance rate 9 percent
Yale, 1400-1590, Acceptance rate 10 percent
Princeton, 1390-1580, Acceptance rate 10 percent
MIT, 1380-1560, Acceptance rate of 12 percent</p>

<p>Group 2: 1435 - 1450 Median
WUSTL, 1370-1530, Acceptance rate of 17 percent
Stanford, 1340-1550, Acceptance rate of 10 percent
Dartmouth from CDS, is 1330-1550
Duke, 1340-1540, Acceptance rate of 23 percent
Northwestern, 1350-1520, Acceptance rate of 27 percent</p>

<p>Group 3: 1420-1430 Median
Brown, Not updated yet, but on its website, it says SAT range for most recent class is 1330-1530
Chicago, 1330-1530, Acceptance rate of 35 percent
Penn, 1330-1520, Acceptance rate of 16 percent
Rice, 1310-1530, Acceptance rate of 25 percent</p>

<p>Group 4: 1400-1415 Median
Tufts, 1340-1490
CMU: 1310-1510</p>

<p>Group 5: 1350 - 1395 Median
Gtown, 1300-1490, Acceptance rate of 21 percent
Cornell, 1290-1500, Acceptance rate of 21 percent
Vanderbilt, 1300-1480
Emory, 1300-1470
USC: 1280-1460</p>

<p>Columbia (not updated yet) would likely be in group 2 or 3.
JHU (not updated yet) would likely be in group 4 or 5.</p>

6

<p>your SAT ranges are wrong</p>

<p>you just added the 75th percentile math and the 75th percentile CR to get a score out of 1600, making the false assumption that the same people doing the best on math are the same people doing the best on CR and vis versa. It's misleading, you should instead report the scores separately.</p>

7

<p>It's not misleading. I am doing exactly what US News does as well.</p>

8

<p>I already said above that adding the scores is an invalid procedure.</p>

9

<p>


While technically true that the SAT midpoints can't precisely be determined, the 25th percentile and 75th percentile are exact and allow meaningful comparisons nonetheless. Enough studies of SATs have been published to show that elite college SAT distributions follow a bell curve that are skewed slightly to the right. In statistics, knowing the actual value of the standard deviation points (essentially the 16th percentile and 84th percentile) can be highly informative especially if the two cohorts are made up of similar components (for example comparing homoscedastic components (human vs human) as opposed to heteroscedastic components (human vs mouse). For comparison purposes, the difference of the predictive 50th percentile and the actual 50th percentile between schools is likely not to be more than 5 points off. And in any case, comparing exact 25th and 75th percentiles is informative.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
Enough studies of SATs have been published

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Where are they published? Citations, please?</p>

11

<p>

I'm away from my home where I have several books showing the distribution of SAT scores at a large cohort of elite schools mostly to relate athletes (or other preferred admits) to the general student body. One such book is "Reclaiming the Game" by William Bowen and Sarah Levin. I'll cite others when I return.</p>

12

<p>There are two different issues here.</p>

<p>One is whether, knowing the 25th and 75th percentiles, you can reasoanbly approximate the median. Not going to speak to that.</p>

<p>The other is whether you know the 25th and 75th percentiles. On that issue, as was noted, what US News does is simply add the 25th percentile for CR to 25th percentile for M and present that as "combined" 25th percentile. Same for 75th percentile. But that gives you a somewhat distorted number. (It's the same for all schools so that isn't the point; the point is comparing the listed range to one's own scores.) The US News approach inflates the actual 75th percentile combined number and deflates the 25th percentile number. The effect isn't huge, but not trivial -- probably on the order of 20-40 points on each end. </p>

<p>Data from some schools that actually list both:</p>

<p>Wash & Lee</p>

<p>660-740CR
650-720M</p>

<p>1310-1460 (US News Combined)</p>

<p>Actual Combined: 1350-1440 </p>

<p>Freshman</a> Class Profile :: Washington and Lee University</p>

<p>Rice</p>

<p>640-750CR
670-780M</p>

<p>1310-1530 (US News Combined)</p>

<p>Actual Combined: 1330-1510</p>

<p>Rice</a> University | Prospective Students</p>

13

<p>Thanks, WesDad, that's one of the issues I was driving at. Thanks for sharing the data.</p>

14

<p>I am striving to point out that you can compare schools using the 25th and 75th percentiles, not whether adding them is actually indicative of the actual combined 25th to 75th percentiles. One would predict that the combined 25th percentile for Rice was close to Wash & Lee (in actuality W % L is 20 points higher) and that the actual combined 75th percentile for Rice was aproximately 70 points higher (as it actually is). Because the bell curves for the elite schools are rather similar, this relationship should hold up in cross comparisons between schools. Indeed, you cannot add up the 25th % scores and the 75% scores and call them representative of the actual combined 25-75% range but the differences should still be rather informative (as WesDad aluded to in not speaking to whether one can reasonably approximate the median).</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
Because the bell curves for the elite schools are rather similar

[/quote]
</p>

<p>First prove the premise, then let's discuss more. Correct logic can lead to incorrect conclusions if it is based on factually incorrect premises.</p>

16

<p>Thanks to the OP for mentioning that the class of 2007 updates are mostly posted now to the College Board site. I decided to check the ethnic self-identification data for several colleges, looking at how many students are reported as "race unknown." </p>

<p>(20 percent at Amherst College) </p>

<p>College</a> Search - Amherst College - At a Glance </p>

<p>(18 percent at Princeton) </p>

<p>College</a> Search - Princeton University - At a Glance </p>

<p>(18 percent at Reed College) </p>

<p>College</a> Search - Reed College - At a Glance </p>

<p>(13 percent at Harvard) </p>

<p>College</a> Search - Harvard College - At a Glance </p>

<p>(13 percent at Vanderbilt) </p>

<p>College</a> Search - Vanderbilt University - Vandy - At a Glance </p>

<p>(11 percent at Yale) </p>

<p>College</a> Search - Yale University - At a Glance </p>

<p>(11 percent at Columbia) </p>

<p>College</a> Search - Columbia University: Columbia College - At a Glance </p>

<p>(11 percent at Penn) </p>

<p>College</a> Search - University of Pennsylvania - Penn - At a Glance</p>