<p>I am a sophomore at UCLA pursuing a biology major and accounting minor. I am deciding to transfer to another College of Arts and Sciences school as a junior next fall because I am not entirely satisfied with UCLA. I am not having the worst time here, but also not the best time. The school is too big, its hard to meet people, my social life isnt as good as I want it to be, counselors suck here, and there are limits on the number of classes you can take before graduating. I am deciding mainly between Brown and the University of Pennsylvania, but I also have acceptances from the University of Chicago and Washington University in St. Louis. I am having the hardest time deciding where I should transfer, and even if I should transfer at all. My main concern is assimilating myself into the school and finding my niche there as a junior transfer. Your honest feedback as to where you think Id fit in, or info about transfer life at any of the schools aforementioned would be invaluable.</p>
<p>Things that I am looking for in the school I want to transfer-
Prestige
Ability to cross-register in different schools like the school of business, architecture, etc etc (I know Washington University in SL lets you do that)
A campus thats not too big (24,000) and not too small (3,000)
I dont mind preppy
Fun social life that is balanced with academics
Ease in ability to change majors
High counselor to student ratio
Low key frat scene but cool and interesting people that are just as outgoing and willing to do spontaneous activities</p>
<p>UPenn Pros:
Prestige, ability to take classes through Wharton business school</p>
<p>UPenn Cons:
People are apparently very arrogant, huge frat scene</p>
<p>Brown Pros:
Down to earth people, academic exploration, new curriculum, pass/no pass grading, very intimate counseling experience</p>
<p>Brown Cons:
No business school, 6,000 people meaning I could suffocate, less prestigious</p>
First, there are almost 10,000 undergrads at Penn, reflecting a tremendous diversity of types of people and backgrounds, so there's no way that the undergraduate student body as a whole can be accurately characterized as "apparently very arrogant." While there are arrogant people at virtually any school, and Penn is no exception, there are also thousands of undergrads at Penn who are not arrogant at all, let alone VERY arrogant.</p>
<p>Second, less than 30% of Penn undergrads are members of fraternities/sororities, so while there is a Greek presence, it in no way dominates the social life at Penn, as more than 70% of Penn undergrads enjoy a very robust social life without going Greek.</p>
<p>With the size and diversity of Penn's undergraduate student body, you should have not problem "fitting in."</p>
<p>Prestige is really the last thing you should be thinking of. And, anyway, according to whom is Brown less prestigious than UPenn? You would have a lot of argument about that one. The first thing is whether the school fits your academic and social requirements. Your vision of Brown is not very accurate. The people are as diverse as anywhere-- down to earth and less so, frats, jocks, geeks, etc. etc. etc. I don't know about cross-registering in Brown anywhere except at RISD, which, by itself, is extremely cool, but I don't know about other schools. I don't think you would need to do that at Brown. You're right about no business school. So it doesn't seem to me that you are really that interested in Brown in the first place. If not, you should not apply there. You seem to have made up your mind that it doesn't have what you want.</p>
<p>thanks for the input, but the thing is, i dont know what i want and so having all these options at UPenn might allow me to discover that i want, if that makes sense</p>
<p>brown offers thousands of courses each semester and gives you complete freedom to explore them--there are no restrictions on what you can take, you can "test drive" each one during the shopping period, and choose the pass/fail option if you wanted to take an upper-level course that is outside your area of expertise.</p>
<p>brown is all about exploring and discovering your true passion.</p>
<p>If you don't know exactly what it is you want to study, Brown might be good because of the complete lack of requirements. It gives you more time to discover what you enjoy, and you can take only the classes that you're really interested in.</p>
<p>to clarify, there is not a complete lack of requirements at brown. there is an open curriculum.</p>
<p>this means you have to choose a concentration (major) and fulfill the requirements to complete it, but do not have to take any imposed core classes.</p>
<p>Technically Penn doesn't have core classes. That's Columbia. Penn has distribution classes, meaning you have to take a certain amount of certain types of classes. Science-y major types have to take some history classes, english majors have to take some science, and they all have to take 2 years of foreign language.</p>
<p>However in retrospect I'm glad I was forced to take classes outside my comfort zone. As an IR major, I took classes in psychology, biology, statistics, and art history (among others) that expanded my intellectual horizons beyond the niche we inevitably fall into--and yet I would never have been able to bring myself to take had I not been required to do so.</p>
<p>And do check out the Philomathean society at Penn. There's nothing quite like it ;)</p>
<p>And Penn definitely beats Brown in cross-registration--there are simply more schools in which to cross-register! Brown has no business school, no law school, no comm school, no education school, no nursing school...Brown does have RISD but Penn has its own PennDesign school as well as a fantastic Fine Arts program and spiffy interdisciplinary programs like DMD (Digital Media Design)</p>
<p>penn does "beat" brown in cross-registration, but one of the big advantages of doing to brown is that you don't have to cross-register. </p>
<p>brown is also decidedly more academic and less pre-professional. most brown students would consider taking classes in nursing, communications, business, etc. to be an inefficient use of their undergraduate time--particularly when they can be acquiring knowledge that will serve them in life, regardless of the profession they choose.</p>
<p>I tihink it is silly to transfer out of UCLA to one of these places (Penn, Brown, WashU) for prestige only. The prestige differences seem small relative to all the other variables impacted with a transfer half way through the undergraduate experience. (If you were talking about a transfer to HYPS that would be another matter.)</p>
<p>A transfer a this stage of the game clearly makes sense if there is some specific program you now realize you want is unavailable at UCLA but is available at one of these other places. But if you are still trying to "find yourself," a transfer might actually work against this. Because all credits might not transfer perfectlly (or distributional requirements that are are met at UCLA are not met at one of these other places) just to graduate on time you might have to take classes you really don't want to take. (I guess Brown is better here). </p>
<p>If I were you, for each place you are considering transferring too, I would pick a tentative course sequence over the next two years. (sequences that meet all the requirements to graduate) Then I would line these up with what course sequence you would take if you stay at UCLA.</p>
<p>brown is also decidedly more academic and less pre-professional. most brown students would consider taking classes in nursing, communications, business, etc. to be an inefficient use of their undergraduate time--particularly when they can be acquiring knowledge that will serve them in life, regardless of the profession they choose.
You're missing the point. At Penn, the additional curricular offerings of the other schools are IN ADDITION TO, and not in lieu of, the numerous liberal arts courses offered by the College of Arts and Sciences. Indeed, Penn's College has more students (about 6400) than all of Brown, and offers at least as many courses (over 2,000) as--if not more than--Brown, plus a larger number of graduate liberal arts courses which are also open to undergrads at Penn.</p>
<p>So in that regard, Penn undergrads have many more course options and academic opportunities--and not fewer--than undergrads at Brown.</p>
<p>And don't be so quick to condemn the non-liberal arts courses that you allege Brown students would find "to be an inefficient use of their undergraduate time." For example, a biology or English major can expand his/her intellectual horizons just as much by taking a course in the Annenberg School for Communication, Wharton, the School of Design, the School of Social Policy and Practice, the Law School, etc. as he/she can by taking a course in French Renaissance Poetry. College is, indeed, about expanding one's intellectual horizons, which includes being exposed to a variety of fields and modes of analysis one might not otherwise encounter. Don't be a liberal arts snob and assume that only traditional liberal arts courses can offer intellectual challenge and expand one's view of the world. That kind of view is intellectually limited, not expansive.</p>
<p>Seriously. I heart liberal arts and view them as essential to being a truly developed and cultured human being and citizen. But the opportunities to supplement that with courses in law, management and other business fields, and others are not only useful in their own right, but give you a new perspective in your core liberal arts discipline in a way that a pure liberal arts education would not.</p>
<p>As an IR major, I can say my view of the field was permanently broadened by taking courses in multinational management in Penn's Wharton school. International relations in the 21st century is not merely the interactions of states and NGOs, but the massive transfers of people, knowledge, culture, and capital that ride on the backs of international businesses. I learned about this in MGMT-234, not in a history class.</p>
<p>That is part of Penn's ethos dating back to Ben Franklin: to teach the practical and the useful. Are you going to say that Brown knows better than Ben Franklin? as if! :P</p>