UPenn or Duke?

[bluedog]

<p>

I would argue that Penn’s school spirit is more than enough, but I feel that things like location, school spirit, and having a “nationally ranked basketball team” should not factor into your decision, especially considering you’re only there for 4 years.

</p>

<p>Having a “nationally ranked basketball team” definitely was a factor in my decision and I’ll tell you why. First, I’m really into sports and find it an enjoyable experience to attend high profile events. If you don’t like sports, it’s possible this isn’t a factor for you. This is why I honestly probably would have chosen Michigan over Columbia. I’ll give you that UPenn does seem to have more school spirit than most Ivy League schools (and Columbia especially), but it pales into comparison with Duke. It’s not even close. Second, basketball unifies the student body. Along with pride in the institution, it really bridges all gaps and allows for great social events that are open to all - we are all there for the same and common cause. While this may sound inconsequential or even stupid, I think it leads to a better college experience. Thirdly, so what if it’s only four years? That’s like saying academics aren’t important since it’s only four years. Or having a good overall experience isn’t important. If athletics are important to you or you think it would enhance you college experience, then that’s definitely a positive. Finally, it’s more than four years. Basketball really helps you to feel connected to the university for life. There are countless hoops watch clubs across the nation and they serve as a way to re-connect or network with alumni. And because it’s not State U with 1,000,000 alumni at each bar, it’s more of an intimate encounter where you really feel connected to your fellow alumni. No Ivy League school has this (except perhaps for Harvard-Yale football once a year, but even that you have to physically go to the campus instead of watching it at a bar). They certainly have get togethers and social events, but it’s not the same, in my opinion.</p>

<p>

So much so that Duke’s very identity is tied to basketball.

</p>

<p>I agree with that, but to me, it’s a positive. I like having a unique identity - not many top notch academic institutions also can claim a top notch athletic program, specifically in a high profile sport. (Obviously, Stanford comes to mind). </p>

<p>Having said all that, I know lots of people who had no interest in basketball coming in, and really found it a great part of their Duke experience. I also know many people who had no interest in basketball, and maintained little to no interest. They still had friends, had a great time, etc. so it’s not essential if you don’t want to participate in it and doesn’t detract from the rest of the experience.</p>

<p>

Penn definitely has an edge in recognition/prestige, academics, and recruiting.

</p>

<p>

While Penn has stronger overall academics (faculty and departmental programs), Duke has better professional school placement (according to the WSJ study) […]I definitely prefer Duke’s campus over Penn’s.

</p>

<p>I think you guys are really splitting hairs. I’d certainly give the edge to Penn in finance/business recruiting if you include Wharton, but if you’re just comparing CAS with Duke, they are essentially the same. Graduates go to NYC, Boston, Philly, and DC in droves (NYC and DC are the top two cities for Duke grads). The academic prestige varies depending on department/program, so it really depends on what you’re interested in. And I don’t think Duke actually has any noticeable better professional school placement than UPenn. You’ll be fine either way. I definitely like Duke’s campus more, but some people like to be in a more urban environment.</p>

<p>

Someone could verify this, but I recall that some Duke scholarships are reserved solely for NC residents.

</p>

<p>Yes, NC and SC residents. Others only for African American applicants. Each scholarship has a particular area in the application that it focuses on.</p>

<p>In the end, visit both and see what you like. You might not get into both, so the decision might be made for you.</p>

[45_Percenter]

<p>

@eatsalot

Duke - . . . a little more diversity (15% of Duke students are from the Carolinas whereas ~30% of Penn students are from Pennsylvania)

Actually, just to correct the record :), only 15.6% of Penn’s Class of 2013 is from Pennsylvania (387 out of 2,477–see [Penn</a> Admissions: Incoming Class Profile](<a href=“http://www.admissions.upenn.edu/profile/]Penn”>http://www.admissions.upenn.edu/profile/) ) whereas 13% of Duke’s Class of 2013 is from North Carolina ( [Duke</a> University Admissions: Class of 2013 Profile](<a href=“http://www.admissions.duke.edu/jump/applying/who_2013profile.html]Duke”>http://www.admissions.duke.edu/jump/applying/who_2013profile.html) ). Given that Pennsylvania’s population of 12.3 million is one-thrid larger than North Carolina’s population of 9.3 million, and that Penn’s entering class of 2,477 is also significantly larger than Duke’s class of 1,739, the schools are fairly comparable on this particular measure of geographic diversity.</p>

[bluedog]

<p>

You like having Duke’s athletic identity which, to most people, supercedes its academic identity??

</p>

<p>Yep! “Most” people aren’t very intelligent anyways and confuse UPenn with Penn State. You think people at Penn should care that those people can’t keep them apart? No, they shouldn’t. For the people that matter (e.g. prospective employers), Duke’s academics are seen as top notch and that doesn’t change because of basketball. I would say that athletics compliment the university quite well, and certainly do **not **supersede its academic identity. It creates a fairly unique identity. Plus, personally, I’m not really concerned with what the common Joe thinks…If he knows Duke because of basketball and thinks UPenn is the flagship university in PA, then that’s fine with me. ;)</p>

[MomofWildChild]

<p>One thing to consider is where you might want to live/work after graduation. Recruiting at Penn (Wharton and otherwise) is very geared to the northeast. Duke recruiting can get you to the northeast, too, but also gets more companies from Charlotte, Nashville, Dallas, Miami etc.</p>

[slipper1234]

<p>As someone whose been out of school for a while, I can say that these two are absolute equals. Which one would you rather spend 4 years attending?</p>

[Soccer102592]

<p>If you like sports go to Duke, it will be a lot more fun.</p>

[Cuse0507]

<p>

The campus atmosphere is entirely different between them. My son did not like Duke because it seemed like it was in the country - surrounded by a forest and gardens. It’s really beautiful, but there is no evidence of a city. Penn is urban.

</p>

<p>I believe this is intentional. Durham isn’t exactly a city that you love to show off to prospective students.</p>

[Cuse0507]

<p>

Do all UNC students have to bash Duke/Durham (for no apparent reason) as a condition for admissions? You’re nothing but a living stereotype. Both you and DukeAlumnus2003 make yourselves and your schools look bad when you bicker like little brats.

</p>

<p>Whoa, testy there. As a native of North Carolina I’m just shedding some light on why Duke has attempted to distance itself from Durham. The OP deserves to know everything about a given school, so I’m trying to help him/her out. </p>

<p>

Oh, by the way, how’s ol’ Roy doing this year? Weren’t you guys preseason #5 or something?

</p>

<p>We’re doing bad, but then again we just won the NCAA national championship so we don’t really have any reason to complain. Can’t win it all every year. </p>

<p>

It’s one thing for the UNC hoopsters to be dumb jocks (who cannot score four digits on their SATs) but overrated, underachieving ones too??? What’s UNC’s graduation rate for basketball players again??

</p>

<p>86% last year: higher than Duke’s, which was 50% in 2006. Looks like you got confused on the whole “dumb jock” thing. </p>

<p>Next?</p>

<p>[Graduation</a> rates of tourney’s No. 1 seeds vary - ESPN](<a href=“LIVE Transfer Talk: Barca hope Haaland bid will see Xavi stay - ESPN”>Graduation rates of tourney's No. 1 seeds vary - ESPN)</p>

<p><a href=“Cardinal 247 - Stanford Cardinal Football Recruiting”>Cardinal 247 - Stanford Cardinal Football Recruiting;

[bluedog]

<p>

Recruiting at Penn (Wharton and otherwise) is very geared to the northeast. Duke recruiting can get you to the northeast, too, but also gets more companies from Charlotte, Nashville, Dallas, Miami etc.

</p>

<p>I’d agree generally, but the Northeast is still the most popular region for Duke grads. I’m sure more companies from Charlotte and Atlanta recruit at Duke than Penn, however. Top job locations for class of 2007 (the most recent I can find):</p>

<ol>
<li>New York, NY</li>
<li>Washington DC</li>
<li>RDU, NC</li>
<li>Boston, MA</li>
<li>Atlanta, GA</li>
</ol>

<p>Top employers in order:
Teach for America
Bain
Morgan Stanley
Bank of America
Accenture
Goldman Sachs
Citigroup
Microsoft
IBM
Corporate Executive Board
Boston Consulting Group
Deutsche Bank
Macy’s
Abercrombie and Fitch
Wachovia Securities</p>

<p>[Career</a> Center :: Employer Home :: Recruit at Duke :: 2007](<a href=“http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:7T6IysLTTtUJ:career.studentaffairs.duke.edu/employer/recruit/stats/2007.html+http://career.studentaffairs.duke.edu/employer/recruit/stats/2008.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a]Career”>http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:7T6IysLTTtUJ:career.studentaffairs.duke.edu/employer/recruit/stats/2007.html+http://career.studentaffairs.duke.edu/employer/recruit/stats/2008.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a)</p>

<p>Edit:</p>

<p>

86% last year-higher than Dook’s, which was 50% in 2006. Another Dookie debunked (far too easy these days).
Next?

</p>

<p>One year is way too small of a sample size. </p>

<p>Duke basketball latest APR released by NCAA: 989 (90th -100th percentile for men’s basketball)
North Carolina latest basketball APR: 989</p>

<p>Exactly the same.</p>

<p><a href=“http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/193_2008_apr.pdf[/url]”>http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/193_2008_apr.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/457_2008_apr.pdf[/url]”>http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/457_2008_apr.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[lesdiablesbleus]

<p>Here is the recently posted Class of 2009 Exit Survey:
Class of 2009
(as self-reported by students on the Career Center Senior Exit Survey)</p>

<p>Number of graduates responding to survey: 874</p>

<p>Top 5 Employers

1. Teach for America
2. Morgan Stanley
3. Bank of America
4. Goldman Sachs
5. ExxonMobile
6. The Boston Consulting Group
7. Barclays Capital
8. Microsoft</p>

<p>Top Hiring Industries (% of Total)
Finance/Banking (26)
Consulting (19)
Education (11)
Engineering/Technology (11)
Government (6)
BioTech/Pharma/Research (6)
Healthcare (4)</p>

<p>Top Job Locations

1. New York
2. Washington DC
3. Raleigh-Durham
4. Atlanta
5. Boston<br>
6. Houston</p>

<p>Refer to Salary.com or Naceweb.org to see national averages of salary by industry.</p>

[MomofWildChild]

<p>My point was that it is easier to stay OUT of the northeast with Duke’s OCR (I view this as a plus). My Penn kid is very “over” the northeast and found his job for after graduation elsewhere than Penn’s OCR.</p>

[MomofWildChild]

<p>meangirl- I might not be remembering right, but didn’t you go to a state school, too?
Why the need to poison every thread?</p>

[Cuse0507]

<p>

Which makes your steep decline (in one measly year) all the more hilarious.

</p>

<p>Which will make our steep ascent (in one measly year) all the more incredible next year. </p>

<p>

Oh, by the way, I am no “Dookie.” If you’re read any of my posts, you could’ve figured that out even with your state school education.

</p>

<p>Right-I figured that out, but you caught me before I finished editing it. Just a Duke apologist, I suppose?</p>

<p>

If you have to take the public school route, couldn’t you at least get into a top 25 school like Cal, UCLA or UVa? Or at least Michigan??

</p>

<p>UNC is roughly the academic equivalent of UVa and UCLA, but I had no desire to go to any other public. Why pay OOS tuition to go to a school of essentially equal academic prestige? Plus, Chapel Hill is in a much better location than any of those schools and has better sports programs than UVa and arguably Cal and UCLA.</p>

<p>

At the end of the day, how’s it feel to play 4th fiddle to the more selective private institutions (Duke, Wake Forest and Davidson) in NC?

</p>

<p>Duke is the laughing stock of North Carolina (due to its price tag, not its academic reputation). Wake didn’t offer the major that I was interested in at the time, and I didn’t know about Davidson until after I’d graduated from high school. I firmly believe that there is no better place to go to school in the state of North Carolina than UNC, however. Great academic reputation, unbeatable social scene, and a wonderful college town. </p>

<p>But, this thread is about Duke (and Penn). For the record, I’m not the one who hijacked it and threw UNC into the mix.</p>

[MomofWildChild]

<p>Wasn’t it Cornell? Isn’t that partly a state school? I try not to remember small annoyances- sort of like insect bites.</p>

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>Who says they attended “HYP” for undergrad? Why not just come out and say where you went? I wonder about all the mystery, but then again I’m someone who announces my school and major in my user name…heh.</p>

<p>However, your user name seems very appropriate. ;)</p>

[Cuse0507]

<p>meangirl aren’t you trying to go BigLaw or something? Those 80-hour work weeks will probably be karma’s way of turning you into less of a jerk (although, realistically, the opposite could end up happening).</p>

<p>Anyways, my point is this: MomofWildChild is an attorney if I remember correctly. She probably lives a much more pleasant life as a graduate of a “second-rate” public school than you ever will with your Ivy education. Sure, BigLaw salaries are unbeatable, but how much time will you really have to enjoy that paycheck?</p>

[Cuse0507]

<p>

Since you failed to address my most recent criticisms of UNC, I will assume that you agree with me.

</p>

<p>Look up; you must have missed my post. </p>

<p>

It must really stink to be second best within an 8-mile radius. But at least you have basketball. Oh, wait.

</p>

<p>Second best at what? Importing people from New Jersey? UNC is a better value, is better for producing Rhodes Scholars, has hotter girls, has a better social scene, has a better college town, has happier students, and has better athletic programs. The only thing that Duke is better at is gaming the USNWR rankings, which only people like you really care about. </p>

<p>

Without basketball, UNC and Indiana U are nothing.

</p>

<p>Funny, thanks for the laugh. Real life disagrees, however.</p>

[MomofWildChild]

<p>

I can understand why you’d stand up for state schools though, since you went to a second-rate one yourself. How’s it feel to have the second best IU or UI (whatever you Hoosiers call yourselves) in the Big Ten forever tainting your resume??

</p>

<p>My IU business degree appears to have served me very well, and sure didn’t hinder my acceptance into a top law school. I am proud of IU basketball and how it did under its “real” coach, Bob Knight, and how it will rebuild under its current coach, Tom Crean. Right now I follow Vanderbilt basketball, though.</p>

<p>meangirl- How does it feel to be the current jerkiest poster on the entire forum? You won’t last long.</p>

[Cuse0507]

<p>

Oh, I didn’t know Harrison Barnes could play point guard too…

</p>

<p>Actually, he can. Barnes excelled at an elite PG camp last summer, even though that isn’t his usual position. </p>

<p>

I am hardly an apologist for Duke. It’s fairly uncontroversial for me to say that in terms of prestige and selectivity, Duke >>> UNC. One is national maybe even international in scope; the other is regional. No one outside the South cares that much about UNC really. UNC basketball, sure. But not this year unfortunately.

</p>

<p>If no one outside of the south cares about UNC, why is UNC better at producing Rhodes Scholars than Duke? Furthermore, why does UNC have a better undergraduate business program than Duke?</p>

<p>

No, I don’t really “care about” the USN&WR rankings.

</p>

<p>Good, we finally agree on something. </p>

<p>

But Duke > UNC in every single respectable (domestic and global) ranking published out there: e.g., WSJ feeder school, Revealed Preference, THES-QS, ARWU, etc.

</p>

<p>I’m not arguing that Duke doesn’t have a better academic reputation than UNC. I’m arguing that UNC is a better place to go to school. </p>

<p>

And most importantly, the AP basketball polls.

</p>

<p>This season, sure. All-time, Duke doesn’t even come close.</p>

[MomofWildChild]

<p>No, we’re talking about your time on this forum. </p>

<p>Do you think you are insulting me by referring to age? Think again. Would competitive long-distance running count as an anti-aging regimen?</p>

<p>You obviously don’t know much about Bobby Knight. If you are going to go to law school (which I doubt), here’s a lesson- don’t believe everything you read.</p>