You’re making a false dichotomy…as if the choice is Penn/hard work/success vs. USC/slacking/surfing/mediocrity.
It’s one thing choose Penn because he really wants it , and another thing to choose it because he’s shamed into not going against the (Ivy) crowd.
The false dichotomy is when people say things like Penn will offer challenges and opportunities(and USC won’t?), or Penn will be the place to go if op wants to work hard…what, u can’t work hard at USC? Look, I have zero connection to either school. But it bugs me when people try to push someone into a school as if he’d have to be insane not to go there…assuming that their school is so completely superior that somebody who dares to suggest there is another option must be up to something untoward. Do you understand that there are things in the business world that are not in the Northeast? That are not connected to investment banking? That are worthwhile even if they aren’t at the top of sonebodys list? That are just fine even if they aren’t visited by these folks who recruit only at HYPP?
OP, try to remember that CC is not the real world, but rather a virtual world of anonymous posters that leans toward obsession with rank and prestige. That’s fine, but in the real world, you have to actually live your life in a way that fulfills you and makes you happy. Penn/Wharton does not guarantee you a happy, successful life and USC/Marshall does not doom you to mediocrity. You have two great and very different choices (even by US News standards both are in the top 10 of business schools–#1 and #10 respectively). Where do you think you would most enjoy spending the next four years of your life? Where do you think you want to live and work? Yes, you will impress a few more people (and many on CC) if you accept Penn. However, if you live your life to impress others, you may shortchange yourself. Choose the school that is the best fit for you and your goals. Maybe that is Penn, but maybe not. Have you toured both?
This description of Philadelphia is about 180 degrees removed from reality. The city is a dump.
^LOL k. If you’re wondering how ugly philly is…:
Nice video. Wow, they really drive fast in Philadelphia.
I agree that the difference in academics and opportunities is a slope, not a dichotomy. There is no question about that. However, the suggestion that people choose Penn for “rank and prestige” and that there is no actual difference in rigor and opportunities is also false.
Frankly, I don’t really understand what prestige means. I can tell you that USC has a much better known name. The percent of Americans who know Penn is small. My family would have been much more impressed with USC than they were when I told them DD decided to attend Penn.
What do you really get at Penn? You get classes that are extremely challenging, opportunities/access that other schools just do not have, sociable classmates, and an incredibly strong alumni base. This results in average salaries that are second only to Harvard in the Ivy league and about 20% higher than USC (source: The Economist). Students also have better opportunities for graduate schools. For example, Harvard, Stanford, and Wharton are the three top MBA schools. Where do you think they get most of their students? Yes, they all disproportionately admit students from each others undergrads. Finally, Penn students get invited to events and offered opportunities that are just not available to students from most colleges. I have been amazed at the invitations that DD receives where the only students there are from a very small hand full of schools. It is honestly embarrassing. I had no idea about the magnitude of this before DD enrolled.
I agree that students should consider all factors. USC can provide an excellent education and everyone does not care about the benefits Penn offers. That is fine. However, pretending that the cost of choosing USC over Penn is only some abstract concept of “prestige” is just not accurate. It is important to understand the pros and cons of each school clearly because you only get to make this decision once. So take the time to perform due diligence on each school: visit each school, investigate the differences, ask a lot of questions, meet some professors and other admits, and make an informed decision that is right for you.
Look, I love the ivy league and so many things it stands for: tradition, excellence, permanence, etc.
I’m even willing to admit Penn offers TWICE the prestige, opportunities, and future earnings as USC. But quantity doesn’t equal quality. Or happiness.
To you, earning $4 million per year is twice as good as earning $2 million. To me, that’s like saying a Ferrari that goes 300 mph is twice as good as a Lexus that goes 150 mph…when the speed.limit is 70 mph. They are both so much more than one needs to be happy that the extra $2 million and extra 150 mph are meaningless. Likewise, the money and prestige of USC is PLENTY. If others’ hunger for money and prestige is so ravenous that USC couldn’t satisfy it, great. But don’t assume everyone is such a glutton.
You continue to suggest that since all of the students at these schools get rich, the only factors that matter are the qualitative factors. If they did all get rich, I would agree with you.
The problem is that your numbers are far from reality. Where are you getting these numbers? How much do you think the average college grad makes? Let me tell you.
Median salary, 10 years after enrollment:
Average college: $41,400
Penn $78,200
USC $66,100
Source: The Economist (based on 2011 salaries, and only includes students requesting financial aid)
The salaries are respectable, but very far from the multi-millions you suggest. Before you accuse others of ravenous hunger and gluttony, be informed and support your assertions with facts.
You continue to suggest that since all of the students at these schools get rich, the only factors that matter are the qualitative factors. If they did all get rich, I would agree with you.
The problem is that your numbers are far from reality. Where are you getting these numbers? How much do you think the average college grad makes? Let me tell you.
Median salary, 10 years after enrollment:
Average college: $41,400
Penn $78,200
USC $66,100
Source: The Economist (based on 2011 salaries, and only includes students requesting financial aid)
The salaries are respectable, but very far from the multi-millions you suggest. Before you accuse others of ravenous hunger and gluttony, be informed and support your assertions with facts.
The numbers are for illustrative, not literal use . Your quantitative minds disappoint me more with your every post. Take a freakin’ humanities class, for God’s sake. Is somebody going to next tell me that a Ferrari can only go 287, not 300??
Sorry for getting grouchy; seriously, I tried to retract the venom from the post above but was too late. My bad. but u need to be able to understand that just because 2x prestige or 2y dollars is twice as MUCH as x prestige or $y, it isn’t necessarily twice as GOOD or two times as valuable. Quantity and quality…not the same thing.
I find it funny that moooop repeatedly focuses on superficial aspects of the advantages of Penn, such as how much money one would make, yet by the OP’s own admission, it’s superficial factors that attract him to USC.
That said, I wouldn’t think this decision should be about “prestige”, money, or any of these other factors. Having these choices, OP is obviously a strong, serious student. I’d think he’d want to go to the place that has more similar students, with greater opportunities to make connections in his fields of interest, and the prospects of developing a great, interesting, and rewarding career. And it seems clear that Penn would provide more of that.
THAT said, if those factors drawing you towards USC are that important to you, perhaps they’re not so superficial, and you should follow them.
My daughter faced the same choice, but after visiting both school’s, she quickly eliminated Penn from contention. She did not like the Penn campus or anything to do with Philadelphia. Of course, it was also a brutally cold December day when we toured Penn. She is now a sophomore at USC and loves it. She is very thankful that she made the decision to travel from FL to USC. She has one friend who currently attends Penn but that friend now wishes that she had chosen one of the other Ivies that she had been accepted to over Penn. To me personally, I would have only encouraged my daughter to potentially consider Stanford, Yale, Princeton and Brown over USC. My younger daughter, now a HS junior, has already decided that USC is her first choice. And I am very thankful regarding her decision. As a parent, my impression of USC has only grown over the last two years. They are excellent at all of things that are important to parents… from communication to financial aid to all of their various online portals related to registration, assistance, tracking, housing, etc. They are just quite simply a well-funded and well-oiled machine. USC has mastered the college experience, in my opinion, including everything related to the exchange of information. My final suggestion would be to look at the survey details provided by students themselves comparing the two colleges at https://colleges.niche.com/rankings/best-colleges/ Both USC and Penn are ranked in the Top 10 nationally for the Niche College Rankings, and I have found their rankings and parameters to be far more useful than other college ranking services. Good luck with your decision…