@Much2learn In this case it’s Applied Science I believe. Either way, it definitely does provide more flexibility.
It’s worth noting that Cornell is graduating nearly 4 times the number of CS majors as Brown. It makes it pretty easy to send more students to Silicon Valley - it doesn’t mean you’re most likely to go there from Cornell.
http://www.browndailyherald.com/2013/04/05/top-10-concentrations-claim-over-half-of-students/
http://cornellsun.com/2016/09/18/computer-science-growth-a-phenomenon-cornell-university/
You can go to all of these top companies from any of these schools. My focus here would be on which program and school you would be happiest in academically, for CS and overall.
I mentioned before that Brown’s CS program is unique in its teaching approach. Here is an essay from one of the founders of the program which explains it in more detail. The author of this particular essay, Felleisen, is at Northeastern, but one of the other main forces behind the program is Krishnamurthi, noted in the acknowledgments of the essay below. In my experience, better teaching can often make the difference at a personal skills level, which I think is a much bigger differentiator in CS than anything else between these schools.
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/Thoughts/Growing_a_Programmer.html
From Krishnamurthi’s personal website:
I live in silicon valley and a little familiar with the hiring and there’s not all that much difference in those three schools, maybe a slight edge to Cornell, but not enough where you should pick based on a perceived ranking. Go where you felt the most comfortable when you visited assuming costs are comparable. If you were strong enough to get into these schools and wanted to stay in the northeast, you should have considered CMU or MIT, unless you already did.
I think that students with a more focused interest are likely to choose Cornell. Students with broader interests are likely to choose Penn or Brown.
Also, Penn SEAS and Wharton students are well connected. They often share an interest in tech entrepreneurship, take trips together like Tech Trek, and share a Tech and Entrepreneurship Senior Society called the Bell Society whose members all bear a striking resemblance to Alexander Graham Bell. (Visit their site for visual confirmation. bellsociety.com ).
Rejected by MIT and wait listed at CMU. Took myself off the waitlist at CMU since I liked Cornell more and wanted a more well rounded college experience. @theloniusmonk
Recognizing OP does not prefer Cornell, but just for the record re: some posts here:
CS major at Cornell can be done through the College of Engineering or the College of Arts & Sciences.
Each of these colleges has their own set of in-college course, distribution and credit requirements.
Which are very typical requirements for colleges of their type generally. NOT more onerous.
Beyond those requirements, students are free to take courses at any of the university’s seven undergraduate colleges.
And they do.
I took courses in three of the university’s colleges.
My daughter took courses in four of them.
One time a number of years ago somebody on one of these forums was trumpeting how Penn students can and do take courses in other of its colleges, as if that was some big deal. Well I guess it was, at least for marketing purposes.
At that time, I looked at the requirements for Penn’s engineering college, vs. Cornell’s, and they were essentially the same. Or very similar. No idea about now.
Lots of tech-oriented students at Cornell pursue varied interests. For many, that’s why they chose a university with a strong Arts & Sciences college over say RPI or CMU. I don’t know why somebody would claim otherwise. They can take courses at Dyson too, IIRC. My D2 did.
Brown of course is a different beast. From anyplace else. However if they offer an option for an accredited engineering degree, students pursuing that won’t have the full latitude that the university allows generally. Because they would need to meet engineering board accreditation standards for course and distribution requirements. As far as I know this does not apply to CS though. Also they can’t take courses at Dyson/Wharton, etc because Brown doesn’t offer those programs/majors, as far as I know. FWIW.
Hopefully that “take courses at other colleges” mantra- which is the case, but not cited as a big deal, elsewhere- is not merely pandering to Wharton-envy.
But it does have that odor. To me.
Update: I was leaning towards Brown before, but just got Penn’s aid package back. I would have to pay back about half of Brown’s package due to loans, but Penn’s package is all grant money. Both packages are about the same in dollar amount. Only difference is the loans. Money isn’t a major issue to be honest, but I don’t see any reason to pay significantly more for an otherwise similar education. Now I truly don’t know what to do haha.
this is better drama than House of Cards, in a good way of course. It wouldn’t hurt to go back to Brown and see if you can negotiate a better FA package. Most selective colleges love to say that the people who get financial aid don’t get any loans. You say that money isn’t a major issue yet you qualified for FA. You’ll need to figure out with your parents on this if you’re truly even between the two colleges.
@theloniusmonk hahaha I like the House of Cards allusion. The schools are definitely near even in terms of academics, but prior to this I was definitely leaning towards Brown for other reasons such as social life and curriculum flexibility. Another issue is that I already negotiated with Brown to match my aid from Cornell, so I don’t know how happy they’d be to redo the appeal process with Penn’s offer.
Seconding for financial clarification. What is the total loans at Brown after 4 years?
There are a few factors that make this a very interesting situation:
- If the loans are not parent plus, it sounds like it will be less than 30K in loans.
- As a CS major, it’s feasible that you’d pay off those loans in a year or two after college, or even make enough in the summer to start paying them back.
- Now that there is a pro for Penn in FA, you not only have to compare apples to apples but oranges as well. It’s much easier to say “I value this in my campus more than this”, and compare two campuses. How do you decide what degree of campus improvement is worth in money? That’s a heck of a lot harder to answer.
I think the key factor here is how much exactly in loans. Honestly, for something under 30K as CS major at a well-known school for it (all threads here), I would go with the one you prefer in a vacuum, as the financial difference would be so relatively minimal.
I would go back to Brown about the FA- the worst they can say is no. If they can’t match it, I would go to Penn.
Re #16:
“…I appreciate the feel of a smaller school …”
What is the total enrollment (undergrad + grad) of Penn?
Unless you mean acreage…
Wait I have this link:
Students (Fall 2016)
Full-time: 21,358
Part-time: 3,602
Total: 24,960
Full-time Undergraduate: 10,468
Full-time Graduate/professional: 10,890
Cornell total enrollment is just under 22,000.
Brown is a smaller school.
Penn, not so much.
So if that’s really what you appreciate, +1 to Brown.
Re #27:
“…I don’t see any reason to pay significantly more for an otherwise similar education.”
How similar, really, will your education be, necessarily?
At a school with traditional distribution and college requirements, only a minority of your education will typically be courses in your major.
Brown is different- which is why I find it ironic that people say it is for a broad education,. Actually their lack of distribution requirements allows for an unusually narrow education.
Most students at schools with distribution requirements do not mind them, or affirmatively want them, because they want to expand their horizons in college. I know a number of people who changed their majors as a result of taking courses due to breadth requirements.
Also consider that what you think you want now is, forgive me, in part borne out of ignorance, because you have not yet been exposed to other areas that may appeal to you even more. And you haven’t taken even a single upper level college CS course. Once you are in college all of that may not change. But then again it might. So which situation makes it more likely that you expand your horizons, and switch to something else that may interest you? If that comes to pass.
Versus where will you have to take courses that you know from the outset that you don’t want to take?
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@monydad For smaller school, I was referring to both size of campus and undergrad enrollment. In that regard, Brown is definitely the smallest. And for the education comment, I was referring to the quality of education, which I’m sure is great at both Brown and Penn. I definitely appreciate the Open Curriculum and the flexibility it gives me, so that is a definite plus for Brown.
@Y2JRedskins Which one did you end up choosing?
I ended up sticking with Brown. Thanks everybody for all the help!
@BrunoBear1964 Hi, I was looking at last year’s threads and saw that you got off the waitlist for both Brown and Penn (congrats!) in June and was wondering if you had any advice on how you were able to snag a spot. Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I am currently on the waitlist for those 2 schools (as well as others). Id greatly appreciate any insight on what you did for those specific schools or what you think made you stand out to be chosen. Congrats on committing to Brown too btw!