Upenn vs. Dartmouth

<p>Hey guys, great forum. I have a (good) bind. I was accepted to both Dartmouth and Penn and am trying to make a decision. I will really appreciate any input you guys have.
Dartmouth has given me about $7000 more aid than Upenn. I’m attracted to it because of its location and emphasis on undergraduate education.</p>

<p>Upenn also fascinates me. I visited it during summer and I really enjoyed it. The campus is beautiful also. The phenomenal transport system of Philadelphia (subways, buses) is also a big plus. I’m a bit concerned that Hanover is too isolated.</p>

<p>I’m interested in doing chemical engineering because I know it will give me a broad base.I don’t think I want to be an engineer.
So that’s my profile, any advice will be appreciated
best of luck and thanks for reading
xerox</p>

<p>Dartmouth is colder.</p>

<p>dartmouth is in the absolute middle of nowhere. if you like camping, walking around the woods for fun, go for it.</p>

<p>thanks for the advice. So far, the cons of dartmouth are the weather and location. Do you guys think that since Upenn is based in Philadelphia it would be easier to get interships and jobs?</p>

<p>penn is surrounded by a wealth of never-ending opportunities in the city</p>

<p>you will never get that at dartmouth except maybe working the cash register at the one drug store 10 miles away</p>

<p>Well I have been to Hanover about half a dozen times in the past year. While "remote", it's hardly a problem - in fact, its small size means that students interact with students on a more regular basis.</p>

<p>I have visited Dartmouth's engineering program, and I have seen the projects they do there. It is totally AWESOME. If you want Dartmouth can send you an engineering brochure, etc. about their special engineering program (they gave me one when I went because I was considering it.) </p>

<p>As I recall the first year students work together on specific projects. For example, you might have to construct a robot that will do A,B, and C things...how do you do it? At Dartmouth creativity and imagination are key points of becoming an engineer; it isn't about formulas or going through the motions there.</p>

<p>Dartmouth's engineering group also participates in constructing race cars that compete against other colleges, and I got to see about half a dozen kids work on it...again, really out of the ordinary and fascinating stuff.</p>

<p>So I hate to rain on Penn's parade, but I would pick Dartmouth.</p>

<p>(And as a side note, I am not going to either Penn or Dartmouth so this is an unbiased perspective.)</p>

<p>Wow, thank you. I really appreciate getting the other side of the story.
What about interships and job opportunities though?
My concern is that there isn't very much to do, workwise, in Hangove.r</p>

<p>Well certainly Philadelphia is a larger city than Hanover, so if you are looking at sheer number of jobs available then Penn would have more. </p>

<p>But several things to note:</p>

<p>1) Penn is not the only college in/around Philadelphia, so there will be more competition for jobs from other college students like yourself who don't go to Penn. Dartmouth, on the other hand, is the only college in Hanover. Actually, it's pretty much created Hanover to what it is today.</p>

<p>2) Penn itself is a much larger school with ~10,000 undergrads, compared to Dartmouth's ~4,000. This means that you will have more job competition from other undergrads at Penn like yourself (not just from other colleges.)</p>

<p>3) Penn also has a much larger graduate population than Dartmouth, so internships AND jobs could get snapped up there as well (Dartmouth has ~1,600 grad students, Penn has ~10,000)</p>

<p>4) Finally, of course, if you are talking about regular job opportunities, lots of people besides college/grad students will be competing for jobs around Philadelphia, whereas Hanover is a small town that is completely focused on Dartmouth...there will be almost no competition for jobs and internships besides your fellow Dartmouth classmates. </p>

<p>(As a side note, Dartmouth's presence is evident also by the high real estate prices in the county, which are several times what adjacent county prices are...this won't be a problem if you attend for you have guaranteed housing but is still worthy of note.)</p>

<p>The number of job opportunities that a place like Penn could get you could well outweigh negative aspects of Penn I have listed above; unfortunately I don't have the data to stastically see which is best. However, I strongly believe that getting a regular job around Penn (not directly affiliated with the university) could be difficult since Penn is surrounded by an urban metropolis.</p>

<p>Hanover, as a town, cannot survive without Dartmouth. Dartmouth provides smart students, an intellecutal atmosphere, and thousands of temporary residents each year. As a result Hanover depends (at least in part) on the student population to serve the college, and this includes jobs.</p>

<p>Now onto Dartmouth opportunities and its disadvantages:</p>

<p>For "regular" jobs, I know of people who work at the various stores/shops next to the Dartmouth campus. Dartmouth almost certainly provides much better prospects for regular jobs, for the reasons I have stated above.</p>

<p>For internships, several things to think about:</p>

<p>Dartmouth has a small graduate population. As a result, a lot of the work done by graduates at other colleges is done by undergraduates at Dartmouth. This is true of engineering as well as other departments. BUT...there is a selection effect. Since research professors at the top of their field love graduate students, a lot of the really best professors in their fields don't work at Dartmouth because they can't do much research without graduate students! (So keep that in mind as well.) </p>

<p>This impacts internships in a funny way; there are less opportunities for an internship, but the chance of you getting an internship are also higher because there aren't nearly as many graduate students. In other words, you don't have to compete with graduate students for the availabe internships.</p>

<p>This does not adversely effect teaching quality at Dartmouth, but rather enhances it! The same selection effect means that Dartmouth, sort of like Princeton (where I will be headed in the fall), is focused on the undergraduate. The professors at Dartmouth are there to teach, and they are good at it. Sometimes the rock-star research professors are bad teachers or don't like to teach anyway, so this means that Dartmouth can have an edge for accessibility to professors and professors' interest in their undergraduate students. At Dartmouth you will likely know your professors by their first name, and you can have plenty of direct one on one talk with them (when I visited the engineering department this was the case...students had tons of opportunities to explore research opportunities and chat about stuff with their professors.) </p>

<p>So, a final comparison between the two:</p>

<p>Dartmouth - located in small town, few grad students for profs to focus their attention on, good chance of "regular" job, good chance of internship, more intellectually intimate environment where you interact with other students more frequently.</p>

<p>Penn - large student body, in a large city (closer to NYC for example) so there is more to do, but it is not clear that getting a "regular" job or an internship will be easier at Penn. In fact, if anything, it will be harder! </p>

<p>So that is why I recommended Dartmouth over Penn. You are fortunate to choose between two great colleges, but between the two I would pick Dartmouth for engineering (finance/undergrad business degree is a different story, but I presume that you are not interested in a fast track like that.)</p>

<p>One more thing: Dartmouth does not offer a B.S.E. degree. Their four year engineering degree is a B.A. Engineers at Dartmouth are encouraged to have a broad liberal arts education, which is different from pre-professionally oriented Penn (when I was thinking of becoming an engineer that is something I took into consideration.)</p>

<p>However, Dartmouth offers a unique 5 year engineering program that is a B.E, and I believe also a 6 year program that offers a combined B.A. and M.S. in engineering. They also have a combined degree program which sounds intriguing, but I don't know much about it!</p>

<p>Dartmouth's engineering program is quite small - most students at Dartmouth don't take engineering - but for those who do, they get as good of (if not better) an engineering education than larger programs like Penn's.</p>

<p>So, those are my tidbits of advice. I would tell you more but I don't know more. If you want to find out more info from Dartmouth I would suggest contacting the Thayer Engineering School (Dartmouth's engineering department) and asking them questions. They were very friendly and responsive to me as a prospective student, so for someone who has already been admitted (i.e. you!) they will probably be even happier to explain to you what they are all about!</p>

<p>I am taking your advice seriously Cibbir. Right now I'm looking at the curricula at both schools and comparing them. I also need to speak from someone at Thayer.
I guess the choice really depends on my career goals.
Thanks again</p>

<p>penn also offers a B.A.S degree so you can choose between them. also think about if you are interested in grad school. i think penn tends to prefer its own students for their grad schools which are usually top notch. it's your decision though.</p>

<p>I suggest asking these kinds of questions in more general forums, because for the most part, asking those questions in the Penn forum will get you a billion answers saying Penn, and maybe 1 or 2 saying the other school.</p>

<p>The only other way it would make sense would be if you posted the same post in both Penn and Dartmouth forums. This way you would get both sides of the argument.</p>

<p>As for my opinion, I would say Penn for the same uninformed reasons other people have said. I just like Penn more.</p>

<p>Silly mortal Cibbr.</p>

<p>
[quote]
At Dartmouth you will likely know your professors by their first name, and you can have plenty of direct one on one talk with them

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Oh wait, I do this at Penn. Heck I do more than just direct-talk, I go out drinking with them--here AND in other countries during the summer. No I'm not talking about the TAs (though I've been out with them too). I'm talking about the tenured professors with PhDs coming out their bums who love their Penn undergrads.</p>

<p>Why compromise with Darmouth professors when you can have your cake and eat it too?</p>

<p>Penn wins.</p>

<p>I am referring to general trends, JohnnyK, not particulars of one individual student. I never said that at Penn you couldn't meet with professors and talk with them etc, only that at Dartmouth you almost certainly would. </p>

<p>If you make an effort to get to know your professors, you can know them on a first name basis anywhere, not just at Penn. It's just that at Dartmouth (and the engineering school in particular) its small size and intimate learning environment make it very accessible for students to work with their professors. That's what I was saying.</p>

<p>go to dartmouth, period and stop annoying us.</p>