<p>up until a few days ago i was almost decided on Michigan but was really surprised when i recieved a "Likely" email from UPenn. so now my issue is this: i know mich is higher ranked and has a bigger engineering program (i want to do mechanical) but it is obviously not as hard to get into as Penn. i wouldnt choose Penn simply because it is a more prestigious school and i wouldnt only choose michigan because of its high ranking but are there enough advantages that would make Penn the better choice or vice versa? would an ivy league Penn degree help me get a better job or help for grad school when compared to a michigan degree? especially let me know if you are a penn engineer why you chose over easier to get into, higher ranked engineering schools or if you are/ were in a similar situation. thanks</p>
<p>Do you want to work as an engineer or do you have more broad interests? If it is the latter then Penn is the clear choice. It will have better recruiting for consulting/finance and more general opportunities. </p>
<p>If you are sure you want to do engineering as a profession or want to go to grad school then UMichigan is definitely in the running. </p>
<p>How does the money pan out? Do you prefer a small urban school or a large school with a sprawling campus? I would prefer the later, but that’s just me.</p>
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<p>al6200, I think I missed something here</p>
<p>which one is the “small” urban school?</p>
<p>Certainly not the 20,000 student University of Penn</p>
<p>USNWR Undergraduate Major Research University Rankings (ranked in Aug. 2010)
5—Penn
29–Michigan</p>
<p>USNWR Undergraduate Engineering Rankings
8—Michigan
23–Penn</p>
<p>USNWR Undergraduate Mechanical Engineering Rankings
6-----Michigan</p>
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<p>NRC 2010 Mechanical Engineering Rankings
4—Michigan
24–Penn</p>
<p>I don’t know about Penn Engineering but Columbia engineering is a feeder for financial services firms. The school is already small enough (1200 undergraduates total) so it’s quite difficult for recruiters to come on campus and look for several students to take each year. Therefore, engineering firms tend not to recruit on campus at Columbia. Of course, our school has horrendous bureaucracy and an ineffectual career services center.</p>
<p>Within academia and engineering recruitment, I think that UMich beats UPenn, just as Cornell beats all the Ivy League in terms of engineering education even though it may not be the most selective. </p>
<p>1) Ask yourself if engineering is really right for you. Have you done engineering internships and do you like the atmosphere? Are you prepared for the rigors of engineering, the late nights, the horrible professors who barely speak English, and the constant grind of teaching oneself an entire course? Really, sit down and see if engineering is what you want to study and pursue as a career, because at some point, it will irk you that Economics/Finance majors who drink several times a week are getting higher paid internships and jobs, especially if you are looking for the money and stability of engineering rather than the intellectual curiosity.</p>
<p>2) People change. Who knows what the next 2 years will be like? You’re 17/18 so don’t expect that your girlfriend, career path, interests will stay the same throughout college.</p>
<p>3) Finally, if you have 0% doubt about engineering, I would first see what the engineering recruitment is like from each department. Look at statistics, not hearsay or individual success stories. I can find just as many stories of star students who burned out and live with their parents.</p>
<p>My advice is to keep as many options open. People change, especially the transition from high school to college. If engineering appealed to you because you were good at math and science, then you will be in a world of hurt when it comes to studying at a rigorous school. Intellectual curiosity and passion, in my opinion, trump innate intellectual ability.</p>
<p>Engineering is not Penn’s strongest suit. </p>
<p>That said, If you happen to dual-degree between SEAS and Wharton that might open a lot more opportunities than a single degree from UMich.</p>
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<p>Beardtax, so are you saying that UMich beats UPenn as Cornell beats Princeton in Engineering?</p>
<p>are you sure that you want to say this?</p>
<p>Don’t you think that the difference in engineering between UMich and Upenn is much much greater than that between Cornell and Princeton in engineering, if there is a difference at all?</p>
<p>Beard tax and onecircuit, I also applied to Cornell but don’t hear back till April first. Would you guys say the if I get accepted at Cornell it would be the clear cut choice? </p>
<p>As for my interests and goals in engineering. I am sure I want to major in engineering, like I said before probably mechanical. I have been good at math and science but what really draws me to engineering is the creative problem solving and thought processes. I am not set on working as a practicing engineer so I would be open to working in different fields but want to be intellectually engaged.</p>
<p>onecircuit, you need to stop getting wrapped up within the UNSWR ranking system for engineering. There’s an external ranking system which generates ad revenues and there’s an internal ranking system which each employer and academic has. Princeton is not at the forefront of engineering research and doesn’t place an enormous number of students at top engineering firms. </p>
<p>I will say that the difference between UMich and UPenn is larger than that of Cornell and Princeton.</p>
<p>instantlylater, you’re in a good spot and I think you should choose UPenn Engineering School. I’m not 100% familiar with the internal transfer process, but I’ve heard that it’s quite easy to transition from engineering to a liberal art in your freshman year. Hence, if you don’t like engineering, you can switch out and do something else and UPenn is better than UMich for many liberal arts.</p>
<p>No offense, I think that creative problem solving is bull. Engineering is about tried and true methods. It depends on each field, but I think that engineering as a career is quite restrictive and it may come down to crunching numbers more so than problem solving. It’s just the positive spin that people use to sell engineering. As for thought processes, engineering definitely beats a certain thought process into your brain for analyzing problems. I’ve definitely started getting better at solving brain teasers through engineering.</p>
<p>To be fairly honest, I still think that your ideas of engineering are romanticized. It’s sure as hell not intellectually stimulating. Most students don’t even know what’s going on for most of their major and at the end of the day, engineering becomes applied mathematics with most of the theory stripped out of it. Engineering trains students not because the school invests so much time into teaching. It trains students because professors make ridiculous tests that require students to buckle down and teach themselves or risk doing extremely poorly.</p>
<p>beard tax, this is from you:</p>
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<p>and this is from the recent NRC study, which has much to do with departmental research:</p>
<p>2010 NRC Rankings of Graduate Schools</p>
<p>Civil Engineering
4 – Princeton
41 - Cornell</p>
<p>Chemical Engineering
6 – Princeton
21 - Cornell</p>
<p>Electrical Engineering
2 – Princeton
21 - Cornell</p>
<p>Mechanical Engineering
9 – Princeton
19 - Cornell</p>
<p>Computer Science (CS Engineering included in this category)
2 – Princeton
6 – Cornell</p>
<p>beard tax, then there is this ranking of Top 50 Engineering & Technology universities in th World which very much is based on “Research”:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2010-2011/engineering-and-it.html[/url]”>http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2010-2011/engineering-and-it.html</a></p>
<ol>
<li>Caltech</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Stanford
4. Princeton</li>
<li>UC Berkeley
.
.
.
.
.</li>
<li>Georgia Tech</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon
12. Cornell</li>
<li>Michigan
.
.
.
.
.
.
>50. Penn</li>
</ol>
<p>Thanks for quoting me onecicruit. UMich does beat UPenn, just as Cornell also beats the Ivy League in engineering. I don’t think I ever quantified by how much.</p>
<p>You need to post a link for that data, because I have no idea where you got it. The closest I got to was NRC Data-Based Assessment of Research-Doctorate Programs ([Assessment</a> of Research-Doctorate Programs](<a href=“http://sites.nationalacademies.org/pga/resdoc/index.htm]Assessment”>http://sites.nationalacademies.org/pga/resdoc/index.htm)). However, it’s much more about the quality of teaching and advising in various Ph. D programs including engineering. </p>
<p>To fight fire with fire, UNSW (I hate doing this) ranks Cornell in the top 10 of electrical engineering (no. 9) whereas Princeton isn’t in the top 10. I can’t access the rest because it’s not free. </p>
<p>[Best</a> Electrical Engineering Programs | Top Engineering Schools | US News Best Graduate Schools](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/electrical-engineering-rankings]Best”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/electrical-engineering-rankings)</p>
<p>I have no idea where you get your data and it seems completely off. Either you took quality of life engineering rankings or you just pulled it out of nowhere. This site needs to be more like Wall Street Oasis where you can give feedback on people’s comments, either good or bad.</p>
<p>Well, as I said, instantlylater, if engineering is something you want to do later on, just ask students about where they are going. See if the smart students get to the graduate schools or engineering firms that they want to.</p>
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<p>beard tax, so after attacking other people for using USNWR rankings, IT IS YOU THAT NOW IS USING THE RANKINGS TO MAKE A POINT?</p>
<p>unbelievable</p>
<p>**beardtax, it is not surprising that someone such as yourself that has been making such bold statements as the ones below, would not have researched the detailed NRC reports **.</p>
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<p>.</p>
<p>Maybe this might help you, but since you are only a Columbia engieering undergraduate, it might be a little tough to figure out:</p>
<p>[NRC</a> Rankings Overview: Electrical and Computer Engineering - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124726/]NRC”>http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124726/)</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>[Find</a> the Graduate School That’s Right for You — PhDs.org Graduate School Guide](<a href=“http://graduate-school.phds.org/]Find”>http://graduate-school.phds.org/)</p>
<p>Relax onecicruit. You should pay attention to what I’m saying. </p>
<p>Sorry instantlylater, I hope this ridiculous squabble doesn’t diminish my advice. In your position, I would hedge my bets and attend UPenn. By hedging bets, I mean balancing between school reputation, engineering careers, and non-engineering careers. If you don’t like engineering at UMich, the Ross School of Business is good but not nearly as good as Wharton or as heavily recruited by financial services firms.</p>
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<p>beardtax, Princeton is #11 to Cornell’s #9 in the same ranking - a ranking that you have claimed should not be used when comparing universities, but then use it yourself.</p>
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<p>beardtax, huh?</p>
<p>I have directly quoted your posted messages</p>
<p>no more, no less</p>
<p>Beard tax, thanks for being honest. You’re probably right about my romanticized view of engineering. I wouldn’t really mind working in a different field like I said. I do have an internship lined up due to start soon with a company that has a lot of practicing mechanical and computer engineers who I would shadow so Id get to see if that is what I want. But I would really be open to doing a different major as well. Everyone seems to think Wharton is a good way to go and Penn seems to offer a diversity in studies that Michigan doesn’t, that is to say, if I were to switch majors from engineering, chances are, I would be better off with an education from UPenn. This obviously depends on the major (if anything, I’d switch to business)</p>