<p>I have no idea. I am leaning towards uPenn because it is a research university and I am aiming for medical school. I've heard middlebury doesn't have strong sciences. any ideas?</p>
<p>They are both great schools, can’t go wrong either way. I would visit both and then decide, because they have very different feelings. Penn is in the middle of a city, Middlebury is the middle of nowhere; however, Middlebury has smaller classes and a more friendly student body. You can’t go wrong either way!</p>
<p>Well… it’s not a research university, this is true. But to say Midd doesn’t have strong sciences is not to have done due diligence in researching what Middlebury has to offer in the way of sciences. For a small LAC, the opportunities are excellent, and while I don’t know jack about being an undergrad at UPenn, I would say the opportunities to get to know and work with your professors at a smaller school is far greater vs one that has a great deal of TA’s, graduate AND PhD students vying for attention. </p>
<p>Obviously, the flavors of these two schools is very, very different in terms of size, location etc etc. But if you look strictly at the undergraduate degree programs and compare those, I think you will see there is not a huge difference in course requirements for those majoring in biochem or biology between the two schools. However, it does look like there might be more courses offered in molecular bio to the undergrad at Midd vs Penn… but I admit I didn’t look too deeply. Honestly, I was surprised at how many avenues there are to pursue at Midd for the science kid (Biology, Chemistry, BioChemistry, Molecular Biology and Biochemistry (MBBC) of which the latter has required research component).</p>
<p>I guess all I am saying is dont assume that just because Midd is a small LAC that their sciences are not up to snuff of a larger university - especially when it comes to undergraduate opportunities. By UPenn’s own admission on their website, there is a strong likelihood that most science majors are looking for further study either via Phd or Med school. And too… Bi-Hall is incredible on all levels. Son has taken classes/labs from a total of six professors (not a single TA) of the Biology and Chemistry departments and he’s been there just a year. It was his opinion that there is time for the big research University, but what he wanted from undergrad was something just a little different. I think he is being very much challenged academically, and also has found a real sense of community at Midd that he is really enjoying. </p>
<p>All of this is assuming you applied to the liberal arts arm of UPen; if you applied/were accepted to the School of Engineering (biomedical engineering or similar), we aren’t comparing apples to apples.</p>
<p>I can’t exactly say anything about UPenn, but as a graduate of the MBB program at Midd, I can assure you that you will be as prepared and probably better prepared for med school or graduate school coming out of Middlebury than any research university. I’m in grad school now (Yale), and I find myself often feeling more like an undergraduate student here than I did in my last years at Midd. You say that you like UPenn because it’s a research university, but what that means is that there’s big research being done by post-docs and grad students, while the undergrads are washing dishes and are given much less intellectual freedom than at LACs. For instance, when talking about the size of a lab, profs at research universities often don’t count the undergrads as actual members of the lab-aka undergrads aren’t expected to contribute anything meaningful to what’s coming out of the lab. You might be working in a Nobel laureate’s lab, but that doesn’t mean that you’re really learning from them. At Midd, you will be given the same amount of responsibility and freedom that are given to upper-level grad students and post-docs because that’s the role that you have in a lab at Midd. You are the grad students and post-docs.</p>
<p>So when you’re comparing science programs at those two places, you need to really think about the role you will play as an undergrad. A place like Middlebury places ALL of its attention on the undergrads. They are what’s most important. Research universities, on the other hand, care most about their grad students. Professors are there to do research, not teach. Middlebury’s professors are there first to teach (not just in the classroom but in the lab, as well) and then to do their own research. I can assure you that you will get more out of your undergraduate education going to Midd, and any LAC, really, than a research university. That being said, LACs aren’t for everyone, and some people care more about a name than their actual education. That being said, I think my best advice is to really consider what you want out of your undergrad education and to think about what each college/university is really offering, not just what they claim to offer. Obviously I am very much a supporter of LACs, but I’ve found from my own experience that they do offer superior opportunities and training. You learn how to think, not just memorize facts for a test.</p>
<p>PantherGrad… </p>
<p>How was the grad school application process coming from Midd? Obviously it went well for you since you’re currently at Yale, but overall… were those applying to med and grad schools last year pleased with their results?</p>
<p>I think it went pretty well for most everyone. A lot of people actually take some time off to work or do TFA and such things before starting, so the majority of people from my program that I talked with haven’t gone through the process yet. Those that have, though, have ended up in some pretty awesome places! One is currently a Marshall scholar in London who will complete a PhD there and then come back and finish up at NIH before completing his MD, another is in an MD-PhD program (I forget where, but all of those are extremely competitive), another is in med school at Yale, another applied this year and got accepted everywhere that she applied (yale, duke, colombia, ucsf, uw, stanford, etc). Basically, most people have their choice of places to go. Med school is most definitely harder than grad school, just because med school is more competitive, but in my experience, students who apply themselves and come out of Midd having done well can generally get into some of their top choices. I think that there’s a good deal of support for pre-med students, in terms of guidance. I was never pre-med so I don’t have any personal experience, but I know that there is someone whose job it is to prepare and help students with that whole process.</p>
<p>panthergrad09 </p>
<p>You seem to be very supportive to LAC and Middlebury in particular. What would you say about student body there, how open are people, how easy is making friends (I am an international student). Some of my concerns are about the lcoation - sort of isoltaed place in VT, did you find it difficult to adjust (I am currently living in a big city).</p>
<p>I am currently chosing between Middlebury and Tufts. Planning to major in Economics and art. In case you have any thoughs please share… Thanks!</p>
<p>HelloKatak-</p>
<p>I’m a huge supporter of LACs, as is my entire family; I suppose that I was raised to support them. I think that everyone should go to a LAC for undergrad :). As for my support of Midd, I had a great experience there (though I will say that absence makes the heart grow fonder/don’t know what you’ve got 'til it’s gone, etc.). I speak highly of Midd from my own experiences, but I’m not saying that other places aren’t great, too…I just don’t have the experience from those places. As for your questions, I’m not the type of person who makes friends easily, but I found a great group of friends within my first couple weeks there, and those same people are still my best friends today. International or not, if you make a bit of an effort to put yourself out there in the beginning, you’ll find a group of people that you really click with, regardless of personality/nationality, etc. I went abroad with a group of people that I had never met before, even though we were almost all Midd kids, and I grew very close to those people, as well. I always found people to be very open and accepting. You always find exceptions, of course, but people were much more open than where I am from originally.</p>
<p>As for location, that’s really dependent on your personality. I personally hate big cities, and I loved Vermont. I know people who were from a big city and loved Vermont, as well, so just because you’re used to a big city doesn’t mean that you won’t love VT, too. That being said, middle-of-nowhere isn’t for everyone. While Middlebury is isolated in itself, you don’t feel isolated, at least I didn’t. There are lots of activities on campus and the school brings in a lot of groups, so you aren’t left twiddling your thumbs on a friday night. The decision about whether or not Middlebury and Vermont are right for you is a decision that you’ll have to make yourself. My situation and background seems very different from yours, so while I can offer you my experience, I don’t know how much it will or should affect your decision. I can’t tell you that you’ll love Vermont. I did, but I can also definitely see how people might not enjoy it as much as I did. That being said, just because it’s different, don’t convince yourself that it’s not right for you. I was terrified of coming to the east coast for school, and now I love it. College should be about stretching yourself and trying new things. There’s no better time in your life to do it. Good luck with your decision. Middlebury is a fantastic place, but (as much as it pains me to say it) it’s not for everyone.</p>
<p>Hello panthergrad09,</p>
<p>Thanks a lot for all this information. This is a great help for me in making college decision. I am planning to visit Middlebury so I hope to get a nice feeling on top of all positive information I have been getting about this school so far.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Hello panthergrad09,</p>
<p>I have visited Middlebury and decided to enroll - it looks exactly as I pictured a place where I would like to do my undergrad program. The atmosphere is just great and the campus is fantastic! So thanks a lot for your help!</p>
<p>Great choice HelloKatak. I’m sure you’ll love it and you can always go to Penn for grad school. Best of luck!</p>