UPenn vs NYU for Aspiring Writer

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
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<p>It's a week before I have to officially decide where I'm going to school, and I've hit a wall in choosing between NYU and the University of Pennsylvania. My entire life I've wanted to be a writer, but I don't know if I want to write Fiction or Plays/Screenplays.</p>

<p>I've been accepted to the Dramatic Writing Program at NYU's Tisch School of the Arts as well as the College of Arts and Sciences at UPenn. Which university would be better for an aspiring writer?</p>

<p>Here's what I THINK I know so far: If I choose NYU I'll be immersed in Playwriting/Screenwriting and I'll have the opportunity to make publishing connections in NYC. Conversely, if I choose Penn I'll have access to the Kelly Writers' House and I'll have the prestige an Ivy League education.</p>

<p>Which university would open up more opportunities for a CAREER in writing, not just a degree? Would literary agents and theater/screen producers be more impressed by NYU or Penn?</p>

<p>I'm worried that if I attend NYU I'll miss my only chance on an Ivy League education, and that if I don't make it as a writer I'll have nothing to fall back on. However, I worry that if I attend Penn I'll be "playing it safe" as a writer, rather than diving headfirst into the competitive world of New York City. I also worry that if I attend Penn I'll get stuck as an English major with nothing but a "concentration" in Creative Writing, and my love for writing stories will get shoved aside just like it was in high school. Whereas at NYU, I'll be thrust into the Dramatic Writing major with very few general education requirements.</p>

<p>NYU also seems to have more opportunities for all forms of writing (Playwriting, Screenwriting, and Fiction) while at Penn I can't even find a single Playwriting CLASS. (I have no interest in Poetry). At the same time, I know there are thousands of kids who would love to attend school at an Ivy League, including myself. I love UPenn, and the idea of turning down their offer of admission makes me want to throw up.</p>

<p>While I don't believe a person can be "taught to write," I do believe it's important to hone one's skills and to make the necessary connections for publication as early as possible. Where do I go to school?</p>

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<p>I’d strongly recommend that you contact Professor Al Filreis, the Faculty Director of the Kelly Writers House and the Director of Penn’s Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing, and discuss this with him. In my experience, he’s very approachable, and will give you his frank assessment of how well you could achieve your goals at Penn, as compared to NYU Tisch. Although his own academic specialty is poetry, he’s obviously very involved and familiar with the other creative writing programs and courses at Penn, and he seems to love working with and counseling undergrads and prospective students.</p>

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<p>Coela, you don’t mention whether the financial aid is any kind of an issue. I suspect that the financial aid is better at Penn. You could look at the Theater in Philadelphia class and the Penn in London course that has Theater in London in the summer. My daughter took both of these courses and loved them. She is very happy at Penn (although not a writer)</p>

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<p>In terms of a career? These schools have no benefit. None at all. </p>

<p>I can’t speak towards fiction very much. I suspect that using an ivy league education as the hook to a query letter could, in some cases, work, but only minimally (and is that “hook” really worth $100,000? - short answer: no, it isn’t). I can speak towards screenwriting however. I can tell you with absolute confidence that no one gives a damn about what school you went to, or even if you have a degree in writing. They care about one thing and one thing only: quality. </p>

<p>If a producer or a studio executive has two scripts pass by his desk, one good and written by an NYU grad, the other amazing and written by a dropout, the dropout will always win. I repeat. The dropout. Will. Always. Win. One Quentin Tarantino - who dropped out of high school and worked in a DVD rental store - is worth more than 1,000 subpar screenwriting graduates combined. Every single time. Hollywood cares about artistic integrity on some level, but there’s one thing they care about more. Money. No matter how hard you may have worked to get a degree in creative writing, it doesn’t amount to squat if they feel like YOU can’t make money for THEM. It’s not necessarily fair. But it’s the way things go. I assume the cards play out very, very similarly in novel writing. </p>

<p>I beg you to at least give a thought to skipping out on NYU or Penn (at least at first). It’s a joke. Waving a piece of paper in someone’s face won’t convince them you’re a good writer. Only one thing and one thing only will do that, and that’s a manuscript or a screenplay. As long as you can put good words on a page, you’ll be paid well. As long as you can tell a great story that’ll captivate an audience (and get them to pay for it), no one in either industry cares who you are; you could be a talking dog for Christ’s sake. Truly, I’m being honest here. </p>

<p>There’s a bit of a sad truth here that not many people are brave enough to say, and this is it: while your writing can be improved ten fold by practicing and studying, a portion of it really is up to luck. Even if it’s a small portion, some of the equation will always be out of your hands. There are writers who pay big bucks to attend expensive colleges and writing retreats, and they can’t write for (pardon my French) ■■■■. They’re very, very noble for trying, but for these people, failure is unfortunately inevitable. Then, there are writers out there who write on napkins in coffee shops, and without any practice or formal training whatsoever, they pen the next Harry Potter or Pulp Fiction (I’m using J.K. Rowling and Tarantino as examples again). These are obviously extreme cases, but you get the point.</p>

<p>The real question is how much you’re willing to pay to learn this information; the information of whether or not you are, in fact, cut out for a creative career. The simple truth is that you don’t have to pay anything. Host a script on the blacklist, get coverage, send a query letter for your manuscript, enter a contest, give your work to a complete stranger - there are literally a dozen different ways to get this sort of confirmation, and none of them require going to an expensive college. While I also disagree with the concept of going to film school, I can at least see the other side of the argument with equipment facilities and whatnot. But writing? Absolutely not. Pick up a pencil, watch a movie, and write down your impressions. Analyze screenplays, and take notes on them. Read your favorite books, try to deconstruct what the author did. Practice, revise, practice some more. Read books on writing. My personal favorites for screenwriting are “dialogue secrets” and “writing for emotional impact”. “scriptshadow 500 tips” is also good, as well as “on writing” by Steven King for novelists. Search inside of yourself for talent and inspiration. You won’t find it in a classroom. </p>

<p>Good luck to you. I just think you should try to explore other options before committing to either one of these programs. You can always attend in the future, but if you attend now and it turns out to be a waste of time, that’s debt (both time wise and financially) you can’t take back. </p>

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<p>As an aspiring writer myself, I’d pick NYU at an instant. Penn is a brilliant school, and their English department is top-ranked, but when it comes to the arts, especially film or theater, NYU Tisch surpasses it. Just look at The Hollywood Reporter film school rankings, NYU is third, Penn is not even on the list. Rankings are not everything, of course, but in terms of networking and like-minded people, I think NYU would be a better fit, especially considering how difficult it is to get admitted. The Ivy League prestige does not mean as much in the arts, at least in my opinion. Alternatively, if you choose Penn, you may want to consider double majoring or minoring in Cinema Studies. I know they have screenwriting classes in the Cinema Studies major.</p>

<p>Abcde11, you’ve posted your opinion on the USC SCA thread as well, there was a great debate on it, and I respect what you’re saying, but I don’t think you ought to forget that college education is essentially college education. Although an art degree may not mean as much as, for example, a science degree does, it is what it is! It’s a proof that you’re a university educated person, and nobody can take that away from you. No degree is useless. OP is asking which college to choose, so I don’t think trying to dissuade her from attending college at all is fair. I get that it’s your take on things, I do, but I think if OP already spent so much time and energy in applying to universities, and was lucky enough to get into highly selective schools, than s/he might like to attend one.</p>

<p>Whether finances are an issue, of course, is another matter.</p>

<p>Anyway, whichever school you choose, good luck! And congrats on getting in! :)</p>

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<p>That’s because Penn does not have a film school, per se (i.e., the film equivalent of a theatre conservatory program). Penn approaches the study of film and theatre as academic fields within the liberal arts, and not as a film school or conservatory that focusses mainly on developing the skills of filmmaking or theatre (acting, set design, etc.), although there are some courses on such practical skills within the curriculum at Penn. But again, the difference is in the focus (no double entendre intended :wink: ) of Penn’s liberal-arts-based academic cinema and theatre programs, versus the more practice-focussed programs at a film school or theatre conservatory program.</p>

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<p>One of my favorite books.</p>

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<p>@bodangles - it really is excellent! </p>

<p>@Layra Sparks - I apologize for being so forward. When I have such strong opinions, it’s difficult to be stay in the middle :wink: . I think everyone has their own path, and should be free to choose where they go in life and how they get there. I don’t think there’s absolutely anything wrong with a degree in art, or history, or creative writing, regardless of “clout” when you compare those degrees to STEM majors. I think there should only be one requirement for picking a degree and a college, and it’s this: do what you want without regrets. If the OP is absolutely, completely positive they’ll be without regrets after graduating, I say go for it. But that’s only if they’re sure. Unfortunately, there are so many graduates out there who - whether it be due to crushing debt or a subpar education - end up regretting their decision to attend so-and-so school for such-and-such degree. Then they spend the next twenty years lamenting their unfortunate situation.</p>

<p>Whatever the OP chooses, good luck to them! So long as they don’t have any regrets </p>

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<p>@Coela32‌ As someone who aspires to be the female Judd Apatow, I literally had the same problem. But I decided I am going to UPenn for Film and English next year. I have met a ton of people that are interested in the comedy television show I hope to make, and they seem to have a number of screenwriting classes, including advanced and intermediate level ones. Hopefully I will be well-supported. What did you decide? If you’re coming to Penn, we should talk!</p>

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<p>@vidgirl If you haven’t already, be sure to check out this web site for Penn alums and current students involved or interested in the entertainment industry:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.penntertainment.com/”>http://www.penntertainment.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And also be sure to follow them (“penntertainment”) on Facebook and Twitter–they’ll often post info about job and internship opportunities for Penn students and alums.</p>