<p>There is a shuttle bus from Pomona to LAX. Normally we fly into Ontario which is only 15 minutes away but the last time we flew into LAX, it took one 65 minutes from Pomona to the airport in mid morning traffic.</p>
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<p>Pomona alumni have some of the highest per capita rates of earned PhDs in psychology and other social sciences ([COLLEGE</a> PHD PRODUCTIVITY](<a href=“http://www.reed.edu/ir/phd.html]COLLEGE”>Doctoral Degree Productivity - Institutional Research - Reed College)).</p>
<p>According to NSF data, from 2006-2010, 24 Pomona alumni earned PhDs in psychology. 101 UPenn alumni earned PhDs in psychology from 2006-12, but Penn is a much larger school. 4% of Penn undergraduate degrees were conferred in Psychology in 2011-12. With ~5900 Spring graduates, that suggests 236 UPenn Psych degrees were granted. 7% of Pomona undergraduate degrees were conferred in Psychology in 2011-12. With ~360 Spring graduates, that suggests ~25 Pomona Psych degrees were granted. So, it appears a much higher percentage of Pomona Psych majors have been earning PhDs in Psychology. </p>
<p>See <a href=“https://webcaspar.nsf.gov/[/url]”>https://webcaspar.nsf.gov/</a> for detailed PhD production data.
See the Common Data Set files, Section J, for percentage of Degrees Conferred per field.
2012 Commencement numbers:
[Penn:</a> Commencement 2012](<a href=“http://www.upenn.edu/spotlights/commencement-2012]Penn:”>http://www.upenn.edu/spotlights/commencement-2012)
[2012</a> Commencement Recap - Pomona College](<a href=“http://www.pomona.edu/events/commencement/2012/2012-commencement.aspx]2012”>http://www.pomona.edu/events/commencement/2012/2012-commencement.aspx)</p>
<p>Some research universities, including some very selective private universities, have very large classes in intro/intermediate Psych courses. Note that only 1% of Pomona classes have 50 or more students. 8.6% of Penn classes have 50 or more students (see the USNWR site). This ratio may be much higher in intro courses and in popular majors. Unfortunately, neither Penn’s nor Pomona’s sites seem to show specific class enrollment numbers. However, at Princeton, Intro to Psychology (Spring 2013) has 171 students. At Johns Hopkins, Intro to Cognitive Psych (Spring 2013) has an enrollment limit of 350 students. At Williams College, Cognitive Psychology (Spring 2013) has an enrollment of only 50. At Swarthmore College, Cognitive Psychology (Fall 2012) has an enrollment limit of 35. I can’t be 100% sure that these numbers are in line with what you’d experience at Penn v. Pomona. However, I think it’s safe to assume your classes are more likely to be consistently small at Pomona. </p>
<p>LA-area weather is much nicer than Philadelphia-area weather. Toss in the $10K/year discount to attend Pomona, and all things considered, that’s the school I’d recommend.</p>
<p>By the way, American college professors are much more likely than other parents to send their kids to liberal arts colleges. <a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37244508/where-professors-send-their-children-to-college/[/url]”>http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37244508/where-professors-send-their-children-to-college/</a></p>
<p>tk21769 says in post #22:</p>
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<p>Here is the Pomona class schedule with enrollment limits:</p>
<p>[Home</a> | Portal](<a href=“http://■■■■■■■.com/csxsakd]Home”>Home | Portal)</p>
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<p>Your number for Penn graduates is WAY off. The 5900 graduates you cite include ALL graduates of Penn’s schools, including graduate and professional schools (Masters, PhDs, Law, Medicine, Veterinary, Dental, etc.). There are only about 2,400 undergraduates in each Penn graduating class, of whom about 1,600 are in the College of Arts and Sciences (which includes the Psychology majors).</p>
<p>I stand corrected.</p>
<p>The 2012-13 CDS Section J, Degrees Conferred, includes undergraduate degrees conferred in architecture (1%), business/marketing (22%), communications/journalism (3%), engineering (10%), and “health professions and related programs” (10%). So it would appear that Psych majors are 4% of something closer to 45 Percenter’s higher number.</p>
<p>^ So roughly 100 Psych majors in each Penn graduating class, meaning that the Psych PhD production rate for undergraduate Psych majors at Penn is about the same as the rate for Pomona, which makes sense.</p>
<p>Pomona has excellent academics and an excellent reputation. It’s small enough to get to know your professors and large enough (with the 5-college consortium) to give you a huge variety of people and class offerings. </p>
<p>IMO, it basically comes down to whether you want easy access to the hustle and bustle of a large city, or not. Pomona is geographically more isolated but you can get to mountains (winter skiing) and beach both within an hour (actually, the mountains are closer). There are many interesting things to do on campus at Pomona but if you crave a city, go to U Penn.</p>
<p>^^ Yes, the rate then would appear to be roughly the same … although it’s tricky to tease out these numbers precisely. The percentage of psych majors does vary somewhat from year to year. </p>
<p>I don’t know if the Reed PhD production tables I cited base the per capita adjustments on school population sizes or number of majors in each field. To normalize by school population, not by number of majors, would make schools like Penn Penn look relatively less productive (since the numerators would be inflated by students of nursing, engineering, and other pre-professional fields that presumably produce few Psych PhDs).</p>
<p>Anyway, 45 Percenter, thanks for catching that error in the # of Penn graduates. I’m still inclined to vote Pomona, though :)</p>
<p>UPenn is not worth 10K more than Pomona as the schools are virtually identical in selectivity, graduate school placement, and caliber of the student body.</p>
<p>“intending to study either Neuroscience or Psychology.”
Pomona’s neuroscience is better than UPenn’s, and their psychology departments are virtually the same. Neuroscience and psychology were Pomona’s 3rd and 4th most popular majors respectively, so you’re in a great place to do it.</p>
<p>“I am not a party person -a non-drinker-. I know it sounds a little boring, but it is as such. I cannot say I am a quite or a very social person in general, because it depends on the environment; that is why I do not know what I’m looking for exactly, but for sure I would prefer a place where is easy to make friends.”</p>
<p>Pomona is perfect then. It’s an extremely well-balanced place with an equal mixture of both the social and the non-social types. Pomona students tend to be more friendly and open minded. UPenn has a huge social scene, one of the largest of the Ivy League. </p>
<p>“But ,being famous for its business and economics programs, UPenn may not be a good choice for such a major.”</p>
<p>UPenn is one of the most pre-professional top schools. Pomona is not very pre-professional at all. Which do you prefer? It seems you’re not a pre-professional type.</p>
<p>Also associated with Pomona: better weather, happier students, more individual attention, greater endowment per student, smaller classes, more intellectual, more well-balanced through Claremont Consortium, in one of the best locations in the country (safe beautiful suburb located 45 minutes away from Downtown LA, 25 minutes from the mountains, 30 minutes from the beaches, 30 minutes away from Disneyland, 40 minutes from the ocean, and transportation has gotten much better).</p>
<p>Associated with Penn: More urban, more prestige, more international students, research power-house, bustling social scene, bigger class selection.</p>
<p>“My point, however, is that in the world at large, Penn is much better known (i.e., there are many people who don’t know how good Pomona is). Internationally, I would guess, internationally, even more so. Hence, my comment that I feel Penn has a better rep. I believe it is better known.”</p>
<p>If OP’s intentions is to go to a top graduate school in the USA, Pomona students place better. Maybe it’s just that Pomona students are more likely to go to a top graduate school out of general interest than it being a better school for graduate school, but there is virtually NO difference in choosing either school. Prestige shouldn’t matter.</p>
<p>You can only go to Pomona once- for undergraduate. Something to keep in mind.</p>
<p>“I believe Penn is stronger at sciences.”</p>
<p>How can you even make this claim? Pomona’s math, neuroscience, psychology, chemistry, biology, molecular biology, and computer science are some of its best and most popular majors. Pomona is very science heavy for a liberal arts college ([Pomona</a> College](<a href=“http://www.pomona.edu/administration/registrar/reports-statistics/majors-minors/declared-majors.pdf]Pomona”>http://www.pomona.edu/administration/registrar/reports-statistics/majors-minors/declared-majors.pdf)): don’t make the stereotype that liberal arts colleges are all about the humanities.</p>
<p>Also another important consideration: major requirements!</p>
<p>[Program:</a> Psychology Major - Pomona College - Acalog ACMS?](<a href=“Program: Psychology Major - Pomona College - Acalog ACMS™”>Program: Psychology Major - Pomona College - Acalog ACMS™) [Psychology]
[Program:</a> Neuroscience Major - Pomona College - Acalog ACMS?](<a href=“Program: Neuroscience Major - Pomona College - Acalog ACMS™”>Program: Neuroscience Major - Pomona College - Acalog ACMS™) [Neuroscience]
[BBB</a> Major Requirements | Biological Basis of Behavior Program](<a href=“http://www.sas.upenn.edu/bbb/requirements/major]BBB”>Neuroscience Major Requirements | Neuroscience) [Biological Basis of Behavior Program]
[Forms</a> | University of Pennsylvania Department of Psychology](<a href=“http://psychology.sas.upenn.edu/node/45]Forms”>Sensation and Perception | Psychology) [Psychology- the first form]</p>
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Says who? And based on what? Penn’s undergraduate neuroscience program, called Biological Basis of Behavior, is one of the oldest and most prestigious in the country, and is backed by one of the largest medical research budgets in the country (Penn is consistently among the top 2 or 3 recipients of NIH research funding in the country). To quote the BBB web site:</p>
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<p>[Biological</a> Basis of Behavior Program](<a href=“http://www.sas.upenn.edu/bbb/]Biological”>Neuroscience Program - Home | Neuroscience) [bolding and italics in original]</p>
<p>It’s a world-class program, and also happens to be one of the largest and most popular undergraduate majors at Penn.</p>
<p>I’m sure that Pomona also has an excellent neuroscience program, but there’s absolutely no basis for a blanket statement that it’s better than Penn’s.</p>
<p>You’re right. The difference isn’t that big, and I apologize for that statement. However, I do want to present some considerations:</p>
<p>1) A significant larger proportion of Pomona students pursue neuroscience than Penn students pursue BBB. This makes for a more prominent community of students and faculty. Sure, the absolute numbers may be similar if not larger at UPenn, but because of Pomona’s collaborative and tighter-knit atmosphere the community feel is arguably better.
2) BBB has a strong neuroscience component, but it is not a neuroscience major. The specific degrees you can get with neuroscience/neurobiology are minors or concentrations.
3) Pomona’s neuroscience has a very strong study abroad program with UCL, ranked second in the world for neuroscience research.
4) Pomona’s neuroscience is a highly respected model that is used in consideration of the neuroscience majors at top schools (<a href=“http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~bok_cen/sfn/2010/PDFs/Pomona-Parfitt.pdf[/url]”>http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~bok_cen/sfn/2010/PDFs/Pomona-Parfitt.pdf</a>). Just 3 years after the making the PowerPoint, the major has become even more intense, needing 16 required classes, and the number of classes offered and faculty have increased. The point of this has nothing to do with BBB, but rather that Pomona neuroscience has been renowned for its depth and track.
5) UPenn’s distribution requirements are much more intense than Pomona’s core requirements, giving Pomona students the opportunity to dabble into other areas or to get an extremely focused neuroscience degree.
6) Despite it having less research opportunities on the basis of it being a LAC, Pomona has a ridiculous amount of money per student which it actively uses to fund student opportunities and internships. Research is huge at Pomona- about 15% of the student body participates each year through Pomona’s summer research program, and because there are no graduates, it’s easy to find research even in the first semester of freshmen year. Neuroscience facilities are top notch at Pomona- the technology, labs, and equipment are really nice.
7) Neuroscience is big at Pitzer and CMC as well, meaning more research and classes to choose from. Harvey Mudd offers mathematical biology and neural networks as well.</p>
<p>OP…you have two great choices! I think it comes down to big school (with very strong sports and gung-ho fans) vs. more intimate school (with great weather!). You’ll get a fantastic education either way. </p>
<p>Do you get lost in crowds or get energized by them? Crave nature or city hustle and bustle? Those are the questions you should be asking, IMO.</p>
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Again, I don’t believe there’s any basis for such a sweeping generalization. Both schools appear to have very similar broad distributional requirements, which can be satisfied with a wide variety of of courses in a vast array of subjects. There are no specific courses required of every student in Penn’s College of Arts and Sciences, allowing tremendous flexibility in satisfying the broad distributional requirements, very similar to the requirements at Pomona. There may be slight differences in specifics, but there essentially is the same type of broad distributional requirements at both schools.</p>
<p>“How can you even make this claim? Pomona’s math, neuroscience, psychology, chemistry, biology, molecular biology, and computer science are some of its best and most popular majors.”</p>
<p>The fact that it’s a popular major doesn’t mean it’s any good - in fact it could mean that the student to faculty ratio is higher in the major because it’s popular. So, that could actually work against it. </p>
<p>Penn it very well known for substantial world-class research in the aforementioned areas. It also benefits from having a world class research hospital as well, which Pomona obviously does not have. </p>
<p>I also like how you assumed, without any basis for so doing, that I think that LACs are somehow inherently inferior in sciences because they’re LACs. Don’t assume, you know what they say when you assume. Don’t make the stereotype that because someone thinks a non-LAC may be stronger in particular science areas that they’re under the impression LACs are only good at liberal arts subjects. </p>
<p>In terms of research output and available resources for research production, in psychology, neuroscience, biological basis for behavior, etc. Penn simply has more resources available to it. Professors at Penn can take advantage of the huge resources provided by the hospital - a resource which Pomona lacks. </p>
<p>In psychology and medicine Penn is number 25 for citations in the world, for biological sciences it’s 16. Do you really think Pomona would compare?</p>
<p>Thank you for all your comments. I really appreciate them all. </p>
<p>When it comes to prestige, if that is such an issue, should not I consider UC Berkeley before thinking about UPenn then?</p>
<p>For international prestige, yes.</p>
<p>I chose Pomona!! Thanks for all your replies.</p>