Hello! I was accepted into Penn CAS off of the waitlist and I’m thinking about major in Biology. I’m deciding between UPenn and UCLA (in-state). I had a few questions about the university.
What is pre-med culture like at UPenn? Is it cutthroat?
How difficult is it to maintain a 3.7+ GPA at Penn?
How easy is it to obtain research opportunities?
How is the overall atmosphere like at UPenn? I’m not too much of a partier.
Would you recommend UPenn (~80k) over UCLA (~35k)? My end goal is to attend medical school with the intent of doing medical research.
Thank you!
Is cost at all an issue for you, or do your parents have funding for both Penn and med school?
Hey! CAS '14 & Drexel SOM '19 alum here.
Med school is a big investment. Consider your reasons for wanting to attend both Penn and UCLA. If prestige is the only reason you are leaning to Penn, I would go with UCLA. Paying off medical school loans as a resident is no easy task, and adding undergrad to the mix is especially challenging.
You will have amazing clinical opportunities with the hospital system in Penn and Reagan at UCLA. UCLA and Penn are both top medical schools with top-notch research programs, so ultimately, it’s a matter of choosing two great options.
While prestige might play a small role in med school admissions, completing your undergrad in an environment where you will be happiest usually turns out to matter the most. Think deeply about your motivations for attending both schools and I’m sure you will make an excellent decision.
Cheers!
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@1stTimeThruMom I’m waiting on the FA packet but I expect it to be about 15k more expensive than UCLA.
@johdoe26 Do you think the research opportunities and career services are good reasons to pick UPenn over UCLA or are these factors relatively irrelevant in the whole process.
Research opportunities and career services definitely matter a lot for med school applications. I know a lot of students who had amazing research positions at CHOP and Penn Med, but I found it difficult to find research positions where I was doing meaningful work and thinking critically. It isn’t difficult to get a spot in a lab, but I don’t think I got much out of my research experience. Does Penn have great research being done on campus? Yes. Is that a convincing enough reason to attend? I wouldn’t make it the only factor.
UPenn is very pre-prof oriented, which is great in some ways and not so great in others. There’s a lot of herd mentality pushing students to go into finance, consulting, investment banking, etc. The career services are definitely more useful for Wharton students, but it wasn’t bad for pre-meds. My adviser gave me some good advice, but she always would tell me that “a Penn degree will take you anywhere.” If you’re able to find a small group of pre-med students who are supportive of each other, I think your peers and current medical students can be the best advisers.
Thought I’d share a little your original questions:
- I'll be honest. The premed culture is pretty cutthroat, especially during the first two years. Classes are graded on a curve and the mentality at Penn is to gun for a prestigious med school with a head-turning name.
- I'd say it's difficult but not impossible. I had >3.7 at Penn and >95 percentile MCAT, but it was quite a challenge.
- I covered this in my answer above. It's pretty easy to get a research position in a lab, but it's also difficult to get published and/or build creativity.
- UPenn is pretty frat-heavy. I wasn't interested in drinking, and most of the social life is party-oriented. With that being said, not everyone at Penn is a party animal, but it will be more of a challenge to find friends elsewhere. There's not much school spirit either, so you'll have to do some searching to find a group of buddies.
Hope this helps!
@johdoe26
Thank you for your insight!
I’m trying to grapple between whether the hit on QOL at UPenn (housing, dining, cutthroat culture) is worth the increased research opportunities and advising.
A 3.7+ GPA seems the same or even less difficulty to obtain at UCLA and research opportunities seems to available at both, albeit more difficult to obtain at UCLA.
It seems to me that the advantage Penn provides is more access to professors/research, better advising, and prestige. However, the disadvantages include worse housing, dining, and culture. Do you think the advantages out weigh the disadvantages?
I think this is a decision that ultimately depends on you. I know lots of students at Penn who were very happy and went on to successful careers. I wouldn’t say I regret my decision to go to Penn, but I don’t think it was the best fit for me.
You know yourself the best. Try not to let friends, family members, etc push you into forcing a decision. For me, my environment is a big deal. If I am in an environment where I am happy, I work happy, and if I work happy, I do well. A really big part of admission to top med schools is differentiating yourself past the cookie-cutter grades and extra-curricular activities. I found that the students who were able to stand were often happy at the school that they were attending.
The average student at Penn is smarter, in my opinion, than the average student at UCLA. When you’re competing against a class full of top students, the curve can be a real killer.
As I said, the advising you get at Penn is better than none (you will get little to none at a UC), but I found that the most helpful advisers were my peers and current medical students. There are certainly more research opportunities, but these opportunities are more to check off boxes than to actually focus on innovation. Since you’re interested in MSTP, having publications as an undergraduate where you make meaningful contributions is key. That depends entirely on the professor you work with.
There’s no wrong decision here, as you’re presented with two amazing options. Remember that regardless of what university you choose, you will have to stand out academically and emotionally if you want to get into med school. Imagine yourself in both schools and think about which version of you you like better.
When I was choosing med schools, I found that making a decision mentally and checking how you felt about it after a few days was really helpful. Your gut is honestly the best guide for making this decision.
Best of luck!
Thank you so much! I’m leaning heavily towards UCLA as I think I would be the happiest there, but my parents are encouraging me to choose Penn because of academic reasons.
I think you are 100% correct in that no advising beats that of your peers and I believe that publications are largely based off of luck.
I’ll be sure to mentally enroll myself in each university to help with my final decision.