URGENT: Penn vs. Princeton

College Search & Selection
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Hey everyone!

So as the title suggests, I have an urgent decision to make and wanted to come on here to see if there may be any advice? So I was set on going to Penn but then recently got off of the waitlist at Princeton and here are the pros/cons. Any and all help is appreciated, thank you so much! I only have < three days to make this decision :frowning:

UPenn ($12.5k/year)

Pros:

  • got into their Benjamin Franklin Scholars (may be good to add on to resume)

  • in a city/more urban (not just a preference, but also closer proximity and more opportunities to get involved in shadowing, volunteering, etc.)

  • easier/possible to double major (neuroscience and music)

  • submatriculation programs that I’m interested in which may help with post-grad jobs, med school admissions, etc. (accelerated master’s BA-JD)

  • known as the “pre-professional” Ivy, so may be better for pre-med?

  • more majors/courses to choose from

  • cool music ensembles (Brazilian music groups, orchestras, flute choirs, etc.)

  • have a friend across the street

  • better social life since Penn is known as the “social ivy” and it’s in a large city

  • already found a roommate and made “friends” online

Cons:

  • ranked lower

  • “lower” acceptance rate for pre-meds ending up in medical school than Princeton (80% vs 84% – negligible?)

  • a bit pricier than Princeton

  • lower endowment for more students to “share”

  • not sure if being from NJ and going to school in PA will forgo my “in-state” tuition/admissions “advantage” for NJ in-state med schools.

Princeton ($9.5k/year)

Pros:

-ranked top 3 (and sometimes 1 in the nation)

  • focus on undergraduate

  • name may open more doors (even overseas)

  • has a Sophomore Early Assurance Program

  • has a program with Royal College of Music in London that I’m really interested in!

  • a bit cheaper than Penn

  • larger endowment with less children = better opportunities?

  • a professor that I really want to do research with

  • perhaps staying in NJ will give let me have an in-state admissions/tuition advantage to NJ med schools (Cooper, Rowan SOM, HMH, RWJ, NJMS)

Cons:

  • grade deflation? : might be a horrible option for pre-med

  • can’t double major :frowning: (kinda a bummer because I really wanted to do neuro/music)

  • suuuper competitive atmosphere?

  • maybe a bit too small?

  • perhaps everyone there is preppy?

  • maybe not really a con, but it doesn’t have a submatriculation (direct entry into grad school like a BS/MS) program like Penn does

  • suburban (not a city)

  • serious weed-out in pre-med?

Any and all help is appreciated! I’m just really confused about this and yeah thanks!

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You are over analyzing - and your pros sometimes contradict each other.

Which do you feel more comfortable at? You seem to think it’s more social, more courses, and to me sounds like Penn is a better fit.

Ranked lower - by whom? And why does it matter. Since when does US News get to decide who the best is
why should you care? And they’re both Ivys. You are going to med school- you could go to Drexel next door - if you had a better GPA and MCAT, then Penn or Princeton won’t matter.

As for the lower endowment - I promise you neither school will write you a check and both are well funded. That’s not impactful to your decision.

Do you know where you’re going to med school
or even if you can get in? Most in your situation don’t sniff med school - and you’ll go where you find a spot. You have to be admitted. Again, you’re creating issues that don’t exist.

I don’t see much you like about Princeton - except a program with the Royal College of Music. Do you know you can get in? Does it fit with your studies. As it’s the top conservatory in England, are you sure you’d qualify.

It’s pretty evident from your writeup that you’d much prefer Penn. You will be there day after day after day - so go to where your comfort is.

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Both schools have “serious weed out” in pre-med, so go where to the school you prefer, which seems like Penn based on your pros/cons.

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Assuming the price differential is manageable go to the school you prefer.

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My son ('22) is concentrating in Music while completing the last of his pre-med required courses this semester at Princeton. As a serious violinist, he too was very interested in the Royal College of Music when he first matriculated at Princeton. The thing about this program is that it’s very flexible. Most of the students who participate in this program end up not following through to an MM degree, so basically you have the choice of attending for a semester, a sort of like study abroad, without an obligation to pursue music any further. It’s designed that way, so you have a chance to think about what you want to do with music while getting a first-hand experience of being in a serious music program. Unfortunately for my son, he had to give up on this program as his tight course schedules for fulfilling his music concentration and pre-med requirements wouldn’t allow participating in the program. If you, on the other hand, concentrate (major) in Neuroscience and do a certificate (minor) in Music, then the Royal College of Music program could be a possibility.

Princeton has the largest endowment per student of any colleges and universities, and yes, it does translate into better opportunities for students. Apart from their most generous FA, there are all sorts of opportunities that are fully funded by the university. My son’s pre-med internship in South Africa, for example, was fully funded and he was all set to go this past summer. Of course, Covid-19 effectively erased that opportunity. His musical involvement at Princeton, prior to the pandemic, allowed him to travel to three different countries around the world, and he’d have traveled twice as much by now if it hadn’t been for the pandemic. All fully funded by the university. Most of the summer internships and research projects for continuing students are fully funded. I have even heard of a student who requested funding for gold nuggets for his Senior Thesis research, and that was granted. Another student wanted a funding for setting up a photography studio with lighting and camera equipment on campus, and that was granted. Pretty much everything that would meet students’ academic goals, Princeton pretty much will support. Many of course works actually take place around the globe, ancient Greek archeology in Athens, Greece; Japanese art course in Kyoto, etc. etc.

Financial aid is one thing, what you get in the span of four undergrad years in financial support from the university for pursuing your academic goals without having to ask your parents to fund them is why the endowment per student is more than a mere number. It has a huge impact on students.

I’ve read and heard from here and there about Princeton being “preppy.” Forget it. That comes from people’s imagination of Princeton of decades ago. It’s nothing like that today, not even remotely. My son did tell me that he was surprised to see so many students wearing Canada Goose jacket during winter, though, as just about the only vestige of distinction between the haves and the have nots on campus.

Grade deflation at Princeton? Although Princeton did away with grade deflation a few years back, the practice still exist, I’m afraid. It is a legitimate concern for anyone considering pre-med and pre-law and other disciplines that take strongly into account your grades. At Princeton, you’d have to work very hard to earn a good grade. I can tell you, however, that my son wasn’t stellar in academic achievements in high school. He graduated 6th in his IB class at a high school that no one has ever heard of. So I as a parent was worried about him choosing Princeton for his pre-med. But combined with his motivation and hard work ethics and discipline, he’s been doing just fine even with his participation with the Princeton University Orchestra, Opus 21 ensemble group, Katzenjammers a capella, and other extracurricular activities on campus. Not only is there grade deflation in practice still, there are Junior Paper and the Senior Thesis to contend with. My son just submitted his Junior Paper, so that’s out of the way, and he has a plan to do some preparatory research for his Senior Thesis this summer. The bottomline about grade deflation at Princeton: as long as you’re motivated and not afraid to work hard, you’ll be fine. If not, look elsewhere.

Princeton is not super competitive, at least not according to my son’s experience thus far. In fact, he collaborates with classmates all the time. They study together and support one another. I’ve never heard of my son mentioning anything about competitiveness of any kind. My own personal theory as to why there’s no super competitiveness is that, at a tough place like Princeton, everyone needs the support of one another for mutual survival. A “serious weed-out in pre-med” at Princeton is of personal choice, not institutional nudging.

My son was admitted to Penn, as well, so during the Preview Day at Princeton, we flew into Philly so we can tour Penn on the way to Princeton. It’s a personal choice as to whether you prefer a city environment or a suburban. Nice thing about Princeton is that it’s just an hour of train ride to both Philly and NYC. My son has often hopped on a train ride to NYC for fun with his friends as well as for paid gigs accompanying a concert pianist.

My comments are naturally one-sided as I don’t know anything about Penn except from our brief visit. College choice is so personal, but one thing for sure is that do have great choices to choose from.

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For premed Penn has ready access to their great med school and research and ECs there . (Princeton doesn’t have med or any other professional grad programs like law or management). It is probably a little easier to maintain similar grades at Penn than at Princeton. You won’t lose instate advantage for med school irrespective of where you do your undergrad at. A lot of students also end up double majoring at Penn (economics being one of the most popular)

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These are both fabulous options. I think either would be fine as an undergrad college.

Re: RCM, one of my kids was a music major and did a semester abroad there and absolutely loved it.

You have the potential to get accepted to medical school from either of these schools. Take that out of your decision, and pick the place you feel you want to attend.

I do have to ask
if you love Penn so much
why did you stay on the waitlist for Princeton?

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Bluntly speaking, outside input doesn’t matter as you are almost certain to select Princeton.

If the decision were between Penn Wharton & Princeton, then my answer would be different.

P.S. OP: Not sure if still true, but in the not too distant past Princeton gave students prepaid transit passes into NYC. Also, several of your “cons” concerning Princeton are not accurate as noted by @TigerDad.

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Penn’s “lower ranking” is not a con. Come on.

Sounds like you prefer Penn. And yes, Benjamin Franklin Scholar is impressive. If the money is t an issue, go to Penn.

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Thanks guys for your responses-- it’s really appreciated! My main concern was the regard that Princeton practices grade deflation (especially) in the science and thus was debating between the two. I was just scared that the grade deflation issue would somehow impede on my dreams of becoming a physician-- the other stuff was all secondary.

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Princeton. It’s just amazing and $3K cheaper.

Doesn’t sound like there’s any more grade deflation there than Penn.

I say amazing because of the few people I’ve known that went there and the grads they hang with afterwards. Wharton would be different if you knew you wanted Wall Street/hedge funds/PE.

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According to this article from a year ago “it’s never been easier to get an A at Princeton.” Grade deflation is out.

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Okay, I don’t know if this is appropriate but I am waitlisted at Penn and it is my last hope :pleading_face: I applied to 22 colleges, and only got into one college, which I don’t want to attend because it was my safety school. UPenn is my dream, and I would be really happy if you chose Princeton :grin:

But in the end, it’s your choice and I have no influence over it. I just wanted to mention this :blush:

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As someone who grew up by Princeton, I have to to disagree strongly lol. Obviously a fantastic school though.

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I don’t know of anyone, including my son who’s been at Princeton now for three years, who’d describe Princeton today as being preppy. I’ve been to Princeton several times myself, and there’s nothing I can describe the students as being preppy at all, not even remotely.

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Maybe you and yikesyikes don’t have the same definition as what constitutes preppy?:wink:

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Princeton appears highly on college matriculation lists of prominent preparatory schools, such as this one from Groton: Matriculations | Groton School.

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Back to the OPs question of Penn v Princeton please


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They’re both fantastic, but Princeton for less money would be hard to pass up.
Most of your cons don’t apply, too.
(Penn is the “social Ivy” but you won’t lack for parties and opportunities to go out at Princeton either, for instance. There will be rich kids at both. You’ll have amazing opportunities at both.)
However, do you want to write a Junior Paper/a thesis? That would be a big deal, for instance.

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If you do decide on Princeton, this site might provide you with confidence in your choice: