<p>“Willamette is generous for merit and FAid, I’ve been told but am not sure about their program leading to an engineering degree.”</p>
<p>We went for admitted students day, and I’m pretty sure I remember being told no one had actually been in that program at that point. That was in 2011. But they were the most generous of all the school son applied to. Sigh. </p>
<p>One more thing about UCSC; in my sons year they awarded points for kids who had increased their gpa by 1.0. I believe it was an increase of 1.0 between sophomore and junior year.</p>
<p>I am confident that most parents whom have been through the process would agree with M2K that for an applicant with a 2.5 GPA, getting anything but financial aid crumbs from out-of-state public schools is usually a non-starter.</p>
<p>That being said, the student must be very shrewd in his or her selection of possibilities. It’s imperative to investigate schools that have been known to extend an opportunities to kids in a similar boat. For the most part, this will mean private schools…and private schools are pricey. A super personal essay may get you into the Engineering program at U of Rochester for example, a great private school, but you nevertheless may not get much $$ from them because of the low GPA. U of San Diego is another plausible suggestion for Engineering, as is U of Portland and Seattle University.</p>
<p>As for public Colleges of Engineering, since cost is a substantial factor for you I’d start looking at low-cost programs in areas that I could imagine I might enjoy for 4 to 5 years as an undergraduate. The western mountain state universities are relatively cheap. The URM student should think about whether he/she would be comfortable at engineering schools at U Idaho, Boise State, U Montana etc. They’re all significantly less costly than Washington State U. Incidentally, Lake Jr. knows URMs currently at South Dakota School of Mines & Technology, a welcoming and nurturing place. Again, you likely wouldn’t get any FA but SDSM&T is a well-known bargain for the very high quality STEM education that it offers.</p>
<p>South Dakota State is even cheaper than South Dakota Mines. Both are in WUE, but the out-of-state tuition is already lower than the usual WUE tuition of 1.5 times in-state tuition.</p>
<p>Don’t let the high average GPA for UCSC scare you off. My son was admitted for this year (though he chose to go elsewhere) with a 3.2 UC GPA (same as the OP’s son) and a mere 1650 on the SAT. Holistic reading most likely gave him points for overcoming adversity (an LD other than ADHD) and leadership (sports team captain, hundreds of hours of community service, student government), and forgave his lack of AP and Honors classes because his school did not offer any until his senior year (when he took AP English).</p>
<p>I don’t think the Beach is out of the question. His UC/CSU GPA is 3.2 (doesn’t include the crappy freshman grades). According to the 12/13 CSULB Common Data Set, 31.4% of freshmen had a 3.24 or below. Add the high test scores (a good 260 points above the 75th percentile for the campus, assuming the 2100 was comprised of 700s on each section), and I think there is a good chance his selection index will be high enough for this campus). Scores like his place him in the top 1-3% of CSULB students (so far as the SAT is concerned). And with the CSUs, there’s no need to worry about the campus making judgements based on the high score/low GPA combo, because the admissions decision is based on numbers alone.</p>
<p>One important piece of advice with the CSU applications - be sure to choose a less impacted major as the second choice, in case he does not make the cut for his preferred major. Though it is often hard to switch into impacted majors, I would expect a student who tests in the top 1-3% of the student body to be able to pull off the grades needed to be admitted to the more selective major.</p>
<p>I have a senior from California attending an OOS state university majoring in aerospace engineering. When students apply for any kind of engineering, what most concerns the admission folks is how high a GPA he has and also how well he did on the Math section of SAT or ACT as well as Math II score on the SAT II subject tests. Studying engineering is not for the faint of heart, so if he has a mathematical mind and has high scores on the math sections of those tests, he may get admitted even with the low GPA… But I tend to think not…A lot of schools value the GPA more than the test scores, as it exhibits a long pattern of study habits and hard work. He should apply to realistic CSU’s and the lower UC’s as you have already suggested. Look into other private schools that have engineering that may offer an URM financial need. Unfortunately, even the out of state publics that offer financial need to out of state students are usually based on high GPA. I would not bother wasting my money on those high reach schools of Cornell, Rice, etc… Use the money to apply elsewhere…</p>
<p>He should also look at San Jose State. Despite being impacted, it should be a safety for Mech E. His CSU eligibility index is 3992 (assuming 700s on CR and M). For this year, that would have gotten him into every single major at SJSU with the exception of Computer Science and Forensic Science. The EI required for Mech E at SJSU was 3200.</p>
<p>SJSU is certainly worth an application if he is interested, but should not really be considered a 100% safety (perhaps a low match for many majors, though).</p>
<p>CSULB has a different eligibility index for STEM majors that probably favors the OP’s son. The regular index is (800 * CSU GPA) + SATCR + SATM. The STEM index is (600 * CSU GPA) + SATCR + (2 * SATM). This increases the importance of test scores (especially math) and decreases the weight of the GPA. His STEM index for CSULB is 4020 (assuming 700s on M and CR). Given that a mere 2.5% of CSULB students earned scores of 700 or better on the math portion of the SAT, I’m betting he’s in pretty good shape (unless his 2100 is 800CR, 800W, 500M…but I expect that it’s more balanced than that).</p>
<p>I would not be so dismissive of the community college system in California, where you are a resident. Many students go to community colleges, do well, and complete their bachelors degrees at one of the UCs or Cal States. Your comment about CC students not having bachelors degrees in six years needs some context. Some of these students are working towards two year degrees only. Some need to work to pay for school so take terms, or even years off to work to save for their educations. Others attend college part time. </p>
<p>You are very aware that your son’s GPA does not align with his SAT score, with that SAT being much higher. Colleges might view him as an under achiever…so those using “holistic admissions” will wonder why a kid with a 2100 SAT had less than a B average in high school. I know that sounds rough…but that could be how this is viewed.</p>
<p>OTOH, if he attends a community college, and gets an exceptionally good GPA there, it would show that he IS capable of doing the work…which his high school GPA doesn’t really support.</p>
<p>I think you have a decent enough list. It is a bit top heavy considering his GPA, but then…you never know!</p>
<p>But please, don’t be so dismissive of the California Community College system. It could very well give your kiddo the college jump start that he needs!</p>
<p>Disclaimer, my husband was a similar student back in the dark ages. Somehow he got accepted to an Ivy League school (being a legacy in 1972 really helped…and he was a full pay student). He flunked out. Next up…D’Anza Community College where he did very well. He re-enrolled at his Ivy after a year…and flunked out…again. He worked for seven years, then decided to return to college. He didn’t have much to being to admissions…so he went to our local community college (where probably less than 75% of the students ever complete a four year degree). He did very well, and applied to and was accepted into an engineering program at a four year school with an articulation agreement with the CC. He graduated, and had job offers before graduation. He has been a very successful engineer for almost 30 years…and credits the local community college for that success.</p>
<p>Yes, applying to a CSU for a ‘non-impacted’ major is a valid option. For would-be engineering majors who are closed out, they could sign on as a Chemistry or Physics major. If said student is unsuccessful in his attempt to later get into an impacted program, then a graduate degree in engineering would be the way to go. And you may be able to enroll in core engineering courses during the summer sessions, when such enrollment is [maybe] open to students not in the engineering departments. Essentially this route to an Engineering degree is not much different from the 3/2 programs that the OP expressed interest in.</p>
<p>Here’s an anecdote about Community College.</p>
<p>One of Lake Jr.'s friends spent his freshman year at Community College. He did reasonably well there and with the AP credit he earned in high school, the following academic year he was accepted as a transfer to a prominent Engineering university in the midwest, setting foot on campus with sophomore status, having nearly sixty credits and all of his University Core requirements satisfied on day one. Of course, this kid’s family saved quite a bundle on tuition by him opting for Community College.</p>
<p>Let me add a few more points- Those numbers for Long Beach State cannot be counted on because Long Beach has a target program with certain high schools in the area. It is very difficult for students outside that target zone to get accepted to engineering at Long Beach. Several of my DD’s friends this past year outside of the zone with better grades and close to the same SAT did not get into Long Beach. We were all shocked that these students were rejected by their safeties. In this day and age California state colleges all have “agendas” when it comes to admissions.</p>
<p>The bigger picture is getting out of the Cal-State system with a degree. Look at wwwcollegeresults.org you see a four year graduation rate of 12% which is common among the Cal-State schools. In fact many of my children’s friends have returned home from Cal-States because they simply cannot get their classes and like SDSU have put limits to less than a full-load.</p>
<p>Thanks so much everyone. I knew the post would spark a spirited discussion. I will likely add 1-2 more CSU safeties, and possibly an LAC if son is up for writing additional essays. To the poster who questioned my use of the term “we”, I do in fact consider this process a family endeavor. </p>
<p>My son has come a very long way from where he started from freshman year. Some family dynamic changes affected him more than I realized at the time, but he’s made it through. He failed exactly half of all his classes that year, and if anyone knows anything about LAUSD in the last few years knows we both had to work like he** for him to make those classes up. Him by doing the work, me by driving all over the city to 3 different schools at night, on the weekend, and in the summer. In addition to counseling for both he and I (because I thought I was going to lose my mind and he had to be crazy to fail that many classes! :))</p>
<p>So at this time, we are going big or going home. I am fully aware of the possible outcomes. He’s smart, a great person, and i think he has a shot albeit a small one. BTW, the breakdown was 700 across the board. He was not as successful in the subject tests and will be retaking next month.</p>