<p>Hi I'm writing this to hopefully shed some light on the URM advantage myth in admissions. Its been more than 2 weeks since the finality of admissions hit us and the sting is letting up a bit. My daughter, an AA student applied to several selective schools including one Ivy League. I laughed when people told me she had an advantage; just by the virtue of skin color they would add 200 points to her SAT...well that would put her way over 2400. She took all honors and every math and science AP she could. I was told she would get even more points, after all a minority female who excels at math and science and even wants to major in chemistry. She had tons of community service, a leader in two clubs, the types of EC's that you read about here on CC. Recs were commendable, Essays suberb. She's in a great public high school that sends a large amount of kids to Ivy League and top schools every year. I'm a single parent and her father has never been involved. As her guidance counselor said, she had the whole package. Isn't this what the schools dream about in admissions?</p>
<p>March 30th came and went, that Ivy League school passed her by. She took it well, she just wished so many people had not told her she was a shoe-in. We have no bitterness that she didn't get in, but I still have to wonder. I'm writing this as a cautionary tale to all the parents who say 'oh my kid didn't get in because they gave a spot to the under-achieving black kid'. Does this advantage exist any more and if it did what happened? I get so sad when I hear it thrown around on CC and other places that URM's get in just to fill a quota, they don't have to work as hard. My child deserved it and worked hard and still nothing was handed to her. I never had the extra money for SAT prep or any other tutoring that her classmates had. It was sheer intellect and determination that got her where she is. Why this particular Ivy League overlooked her is beyond me. Yes, their loss I know. So I'm left to wonder is this URM advantage all a myth, or was she in fact too qualified to even warrant an extra look? Think twice before quoting such things.</p>
<p>Hahaha, no.
Sorry to tell you, but no Ivy League ‘dreams’ about any student. They all have more overqualified applicants than they can handle, and your daughter, no matter how capable she is, probably didn’t stand a chance. It hurts to hear, but it’s true. </p>
<p>The advantage of URM status, especially in the Ivies, isn’t as big a factor as you would think. They will act affirmatively towards URMs only if they are tied with other top-notch applicants. In many cases, a single hook is only a tipping factor, and will not in anyway significantly raise a person’s chance of being accepted. Just think about how many AAs applied to that school…
Also, there is no ‘formula’ for boosting a URM applicant’s status. They will not add any points to your daughter’s SAT regardless of skin color. </p>
<p>
So??? There are tons of females who want to major in chemistry! How is that even a helpful factor? It’s a very common major. Maybe if she was majoring in Art History or Japanese language studies it would’ve helped.</p>
<p>It seems like your daughter was a well-rounded, smart and capable, but ordinary applicant. Chances are, she had nothing that really stood out and made her competitive in the applicant pool. At the end of the day it’s not about achievements or community service or regular awards - those are just the qualifying factors. In addition to that, she must have a quality of her own that is worth admission and that says “This is what I want to do. Admit me and I will succeed without a doubt.”</p>
<p>It’s really not a big deal, you’re in the same situation as thousands of parents.</p>
<p>Also it sounds like you only applied to one Ivy. This couldn’t have been very helpful either. The chances of getting into 1/8 Ivies are slim, let alone 1/1. </p>
<p>pch340 - you’ve missed the point completely. Sorry if I was unclear. For years I’ve read about how advantaged URM’s are on this board and other places. Its a myth, a legend. I told my story only to illustrate that point. The point being that URM’s are given a wide berth and the answer is simply no, that is not always the case. And I’ve read that there is still a shortage of women and minorites in physical sciences, that is a fact. She applied where she wanted to and in my opinion her application though it was unique was not enough to give her an advantage. I hear over and over again this same story from white and asian applicants but it is always because ‘if my child had been a URM he/she would have gotten in’, not true!</p>
<p>I am wondering why your dd didn’t apply to more reach schools (Ivies and others). Based on what you’ve shared, she should have applied to more schools of this type. Was there a reason she didn’t? </p>
<p>My son is 1/2 Puerto Rican and we have been told that will be a small hook…maybe. He has 2320 SAT I, 3 SAT II 730-800, physics olympiad semi-finals twice, will do graduate level research this summer, has over 50 units of college courses, 4.0/4.6 GPA, strong ECs including tons of music, varsity baseball, awards in chess, etc.</p>
<p>My thought is that my son will be applying to several top schools because #1, they fit where he is (he’d run out of math and physics courses at a less selective college because he’s taking upper division courses now), #2 they have strong teaching and student body, #3 they offer great financial aid to a family like ours (78K income).</p>
<p>I am trying to prepare my son to expect nothing and be prepared for rejections and to love his safety. As much as I’d like to believe his being 1/2 PR will help, he can’t count on it and instead, definitely has to count on his love for all that he does, great LORs, and hopefully, some killer essays.</p>
<p>You’re probably right about URM status helping being a myth. Given the demographics of the nation, there are simply more qualified UMRs applying and it’s become less of (if any) a hook.</p>
<p>So ONE qualified AA girl gets rejected from the ONE ivy school she applied to and suddenly URM status doesn’t mean anything?</p>
<p>I do understand you are upset but there are so many more examples to the contrary. Honestly, she should have applied to more ivies or similar caliber schools because the probability of acceptance, even for an extremely qualified URM, is never 100%. If she had applied to more ivies then there is very good chance she would have gotten into one of them. If she were rejected by all of the multiple ivies she applied to, then your argument, although not perfect, would make more sense. </p>
<p>URM advantage is not a myth. It gives you an edge, at least in “cancelling out” average-mediocre numerical stats. You can see the obvious patterns even on CC’s admission postings.</p>
<p>You really can’t sit here and say that being a UMR would not have helped. She applied to ONE ivy. I mean, look at some people ivies rejected who had quite literally perfect stats AND ECs that made them among the best in the whole nation. Granted, they got into many amazing schools (including ivies) but they were also rejected from at least one.</p>
<p>You may find it interesting to read the April 17, 2011 article in the Boston Globe magazine discussing this issue. Researchers found that Asian American applicants with a 1550, whites with a 1410 and African American applicants with an 1100 had roughly equal chances of admission. After controlling for grades, scores, legacy and recruited athlete status, whites were three times more likely to be admitted, Hispanics six times more likely to be admitted and African Americans fifteen times more likely to be admitted than Asians.</p>
<p>maybe my expression wasn’t so appropriate. When I said cancelling out average-mediocre stats, I meant something like what siliconvalleymom is referring to. With the same SAT scores, URM’s have way higher statistical chance of acceptance compared to the whites, and even more so compared to asians.</p>
<p>From the second ""Opportunity Cost " paper in 2005, and used again in “No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal:Race and Class in Elite College Admission and Campus Life” in 2010 (“The book’s analysis is based on data provided by the National Survey of College Experience, collected from more than nine thousand students who applied to one of ten selective colleges between the early 1980s and late 1990s.”)</p>
<p>"Using data from the National Study of College Experience on 124,374 applications for admission during the 1980s and the fall semesters of 1993 and 1997, they found that elite universities give extra weight in admissions to candidates</p>
<p>Also note they were using data from “elite universities” only.</p>
<p>Note, however, that Asian American applicants may also be (unintentionally) disadvantaged by universities’ attempts to find other kinds of diversity (that are not specifically race or ethnicity). For example, Asian American applicants are more geographically concentrated in certain parts of the US, so a university seeking geographic diversity may disadvantage them. Or, if certain extracurricular activities like playing piano or violin are common, those applicants who feature such activities prominently in their applications may not be what the admissions committees are looking for.</p>
<p>(Hmmm, what does “AA” mean in the OP’s post? If it means “Asian American”, then it would be a mistake to expect that to be URM at an Ivy school, regardless of how big, if any, a hook that is.)</p>
<p>so daughter applied to one HYP i bet, got dinged, but got accepted to every other selective school she applied to is proof that AA is overrated. Tell that to the kids with better academic qualifications that applied to 5+ ivys and 10 other selective schools and hopefully got accepted to 2 or 3 that AA is a lie. yeah right.</p>
<p>Five out of six highly selective schools isn’t enough? Non-URMs, even those with perfect stats, don’t have that kind of success rate unless they’re movie stars or Senators’ children or they discovered the cure for cancer.</p>
<p>siliconvalley: Really? Because in the studies I’ve researched, it’s much more advantageous to be Hispanic than African American.
AA does help, but it’s not a guarantee. And to be honest, colleges really don’t differentiate between a 2250 and a 2350. Once you score that high, you generally can’t do much to improve yourself.
This is proof that AA isn’t as important as what colleges want with their class. Maybe your district has too many eligible students. Maybe your geographic location hurt. As ucbalumnus said, it depends on geographic location and ECs.
Take a look at Amy Chua’s daughters. Violin, piano, and tennis. I can name tons of Asians who do that. (I’m allowed to generalize because I’m part Asian lol). But what I’ve noticed, URMs tend to be more diverse in their ECs and interests than Asians. That’s why it’s so easy to apply as an Asian for poli-sci or history, rather than biology or engineering. (By so easy, I mean relatively easier).
You can’t deny AA’s existent but remember admissions is a crapshoot.</p>
<p>I chose not to identify myself. I didn’t want to give anyone the wrong impressions because if I was honest, I’d have to click nearly every box.
What I’ve seen with my Asian friends/classmates is that only the very top got in with the typical “Asian” majors. Look at the following.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/62953-schools-did-your-school-valedictorian-get-accepted-103.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/62953-schools-did-your-school-valedictorian-get-accepted-103.html</a>
Look at my post. Candidates 1-4 are Asian/Indian. Candidate 1 is an Indian male, Candidate 2 is an Indian female, Candidates 3 and 4 are Asian males. The majors were respectively physics, neuroscience, engineering, and mathematics. They got in because they were the cream of the crop, with terrific ECs and such.
However, there were plenty of other Asian Americans at my school with great stats, just not as good as those candidates. The ones that applied as social science/humanities majors did much better among hyper-selective schools than the ones that applied for the usual pre-med/biology/math.</p>
<p>it does actually, im AA with 1540 on sat and got into many good schools including Boston college and American University! but rejected to all the IVY leagues…</p>
<p>remember there are thousands more well qualified students for the relatively few spots at ivies. Often it comes down to what the school needs to round out a class so that it is balanced. Being an oboe player may have had more weight than being AA in that class becuase they needed one who was well qualified. </p>
<p>There are so many amazing students out there, I am continually shocked at URM and Non URM students who are rejected each year. So glad I am not a teenager any more!</p>