URM status

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
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<p>^I agree with everything said here, which is exactly why we cannot say “without her URM status she would not get in”. If she was Asian and from a poor, broken family with many hurdles growing up, she could certainly still make it to a top school, and would have earned her spot (not just luck).</p>

<p>But I definitely agree, if most URM are poor and from difficult backgrounds and you give advantages to poor people from difficult backgrounds, then you are helping most URMs. But you are helping the ones who need to be helped, along with the asians who need to be helped and disadvantaging Colin Powell’s and Obama’s children, who should be at a relative disadvantage.</p>

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<p>I think James’ point was that poor Asian people from difficult backgrounds do not get an advantage, while URMs from more fortunate backgrounds do get a boost. I’m not sure this is entirely true, but for the sake of argument you can assume it’s true (or not).</p>

<p>as for me, I’m actually curious how adcoms know you are from a disadvantaged background or not. I’m guessing most people don’t write “I’m poor and my parents work 10 hours a day to feed me” on their app.</p>

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<p>no passion RTgrove? I spent approximately 12 hrs a week in drama club for the past three years to put on a production. this year I was the lead. I spent three of my summer days at the local college taking college level courses (obviously). I’ve been writing music since I was in 5th grade, jam sessions were only offered beginning my 10th grade year. Junior year I was too busy doing drama club. I was the only person from my school to attend most of the county r.e.b.e.l. meetings.</p>

<p>not to be rude, but i am passionate.</p>

<p>second off, i want to get in by my achievements. i am just wondering how race would effect my chances of admission. i am not soley riding on that. believe me i don’t want to be someone who people call an affirmative action acceptance.</p>

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<p>Natalie_sd-</p>

<p>Lol sorry I wrongly accused you of not having passion! If I had known that, then I would have said your ECs were stronger. Your drama club is impressive- not stunning- and will be taken kindly by adcoms (especially if your major is intended to be drama based). The rebel meetings might not be such a big deal and the community college courses are nice. However, your chances at Columbia are definately still moderately slim (as they are for most people).</p>

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<p>passion is woefully difficult to assess on an online forum. I wouldn’t assume too much. I do find it questionable that you would put national honor society as one (the first one that came to mind?!) of your 5-6 ECs though. NHS is a joke in most places, and certainly doesn’t show any outstanding initiative, dedication, or passion.</p>

<p>it could also be argued that it may be similarly difficult to assess passion on a piece of paper (as adcoms would see it)</p>

26

<p>if i were you OP, i’d retake the SATs and get my CR and Math scores above 700 each. but you have a decent shot as it is… URM seems to help a lot for Columbia. </p>

<p>just write really good essays and you’ll get in.</p>

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<p>Natalie, I honestly think the only thing that COULD get you in is your URM. At this point is time, the competition is too rough, and your resume is below par for Columbia…</p>

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<p>^That’s asSinine and BS, and you know it. As if they are going to conclude reading her application by saying, “so, all in favor of accepting her, please raise your hand—oh, and before you do, she’s black—we could use a few more of them running around here, let me remind you.” There’s so much more to the application than checking a race box—essays(!), rec letters(!), supplements(!)—all of these things you’re ignoring. Why do people automatically attribute a black person’s acceptance to URM status?</p>

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<p>little naive highschooler who doesn’t know how the process works, don’t feed the ■■■■■■.</p>

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<p>see its funny because everyone tells me to get at least a 700 in math and cr. Of course I got a 690 in both (my goal was a 700). Compared to my first time though, I got a 600 in CR and 640 in math. That’s an improvement. And, NHS was the first thing that came to mind because NHS is a joke at my school. Only another person and I brought in any products for an soldier in Iraq. Out of 40.</p>

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<p>What many people on CC don’t recognize is that it’s NOT only being a URM that gets you excepted to ivies, but usually what the person’s backround is. It shouldn’t matter if you’re white, black, asian, hispanic, native american or anything. What should matter is that you’ve tried your hardest to get where you are now.</p>

<p>There are many disadvantaged students out there of every race who have determination and will to actually want to dream. Usually, the reason for why they aren’t up to par is because of their upbringing: single parent HH, low income family, inner city child attending a horrific school. They still however come close, and would most likely do as well as every other ivy applicant if they were as priviledged. And most certainly would these individuals get the golden acceptance over an ORM had they did exceedingly better. </p>

<p>So the point is that it doesn’t matter where you are, but how you got there. So, natalie_sd, it doesn’t matter if you’re African American, because a race is just a race. It just so happens that many African Americans usually don’t compare to whites or Asians because they were most likely were brought up in the environment I listed above. Adcoms are usually smart enough to notice this, and the average CC isn’t.</p>

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<p>^well this still doesn’t justify affirmative action, if you account for those factors:</p>

<p>“single parent HH, low income family, inner city child attending a horrific school”</p>

<p>which you say most URMs are subject to, then by accounting only for these factors helps most URMs. People get angry by the rich, un-disadvantaged URM who gets in, and the poor / middle class white or asian who has had many problems and does not benefit because the spot can only go to one person and the race card takes precedence.</p>

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<p>Yes I agree this is true but unfortunately many colleges feel that they need more diversity</p>

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<p>“and the poor / middle class white or asian who has had many problems and does not benefit because the spot can only go to one person and the race card takes precedence.”</p>

<p>I have trouble believing this. I’m not saying that it’s not true, but do you have proof? Also, if a middle class white or asian person who has had many problems is applying, you’d think they’d mention it throughout their application; this would certainly be taken into consideration. And quite frankly, it is taken into consideration. When I was visiting serveral schools back in April, there were numerous white and asian students (sometimes more than blacks and hispanics) who attended the diversity open houses—a lot of them were just as poor, just as fatherless, and just as intellegent as the next person.</p>

<p>So to say that a poor white or asian will not benefit is not exactly true. “Haha, I win:)” actually has spoken some truth by saying that it’s the circumstances in which you have been brought up in and not just your race. Like I said, I met a ton of white and asian people at open houses who seemed to do just fine in the admissions process—and they grew up in a disadvantaged household too.</p>

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<p>yeah, I’m sure they consider those factors, but not nearly as much as they consider race. Also if you consider those factors, I’m arguing there isn’t any need to consider race. If a certain race faces hardship because of income and bad family situation etc. and you help those people you do bring in racial diversity, because more people from that race are disadvantaged.</p>

36

<p>Affirmative action by socioeconomic status would solve all this.</p>

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<p>did any1 see this? instead of attacking the kid?</p>

<p>GAmom2012, you’re in no position to judge him and tell him hes not qualified…this is an OPINION based board…</p>

38

<p>“Just an aside… the adcom would most certainly know if the applicant was indeed an Asian based on the applicant’s last name (Chen, Wang, etc., it’s fairly obvious). No need to check “Asian/Pacific Islander” in the race box here.”</p>

<p>Oh, of course. </p>

<p>Because the only Asians that are around are ones with the last names of Chen or Wang.</p>

<p>Sincerely,</p>

<p>An Asian/Pacific Islander who does not have the last name of Chen or Wang or any other “fairly obvious Asian sounding” last name.</p>

<p>Sorry, didn’t mean to hijack the thread. But that comment just screams ignorance.</p>

39

<p>this thread is ridiculous it is a lot of talking with no substance.</p>

<p>the reason i have not participated in chance threads is because so much of the student is lost in translation and the quality of the application cannot be known.</p>

<p>what most chance threads really aim to ask - am i in the margins. i think with concoll that the OP is not too far off. what the app looks like will define what happens. in the end people care about a percentage change - like some kind of texas hold-em percentages. well - i think stanford is very interesting in how open it is about who gets in. [Applicant</a> Profile : Stanford University](<a href=“Page Not Found : Stanford University”>Page Not Found : Stanford University). it says your chance to get in is higher the higher you test, but it is not a sure thing even up there. so the conclusion that must be drawn, testing isn’t everything. further, people scoring below a certain point can’t only be minorities.</p>

<p>second, it is clear that folks here have very little idea as to how race does or does not play into admissions. i think concoll’s mention that even asians/whites with lower testing are admitted is important to note. because something about them was compelling interesting, etc. if you don’t know, don’t speculate. so whenever i run into this trouble despite the fact i have some clue about this stuff, i call a friend who works as a college counselor and another who used to work in admissions for the real skinny. and they had a chuckle when i told her kids online think that checking a box changes a decision. the fact being that so much of the application provides indicators of a students background in so much of its diversity that students who are low-income from overrepresented groups are understood in that context, students who are high income from underrepresented groups are understood in that context, and there is no comparison between. </p>

<p>at most they both said, checking a box might raise an eyebrow - but unless it is qualitatively substantiated with other indicators of promise and potential, it wont change anything. </p>

<p>re: white/asian applicants feeling disproportionately hurt, they both agreed that was a perception that however not the intention, was certainly how people took it. the adcom friend noted that a lot of strong asian students with good testing sometimes kick themselves because they are uniformly interested in something overrepresented like medicine and do lack to a degree a curiosity beyond that. i am not sure how that works at columbia (she being at a rival school and all), but i imagine similarly. she also noted that there was once a study done (i think it is that princeton one people throw around) that claimed that women and athletes have been aided by affirmative action more than minorities. so let’s broaden what AA is considered. the idea that ‘hooked groups’ are larger and at times more complex than just urm. everything from scientists nowadays to artists get bumps in the process. </p>

<p>lastly - the adcom and counselor both said that AA nowadays really is socioeconomically based, considering that race has an impact on someone’s socioeconomic status, cultural beliefs, expectations ([Stereotype</a> threat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat]Stereotype”>Stereotype threat - Wikipedia)), just as they look at family’s income, town you come from, how close or far you are from high school or ease to be able to participate in things. but rachel, just because someone who is a minority comes from a more privileged background does not mean they are less deserving of admittance if for example they do not compare as well as their peers using raw data, but if the adcom considers them to have the appropriate spirit and interest then they may be admitted.</p>

<p>ultimately, i think the process of admissions is far more complicated than a matrix and definitely not served by chance threads. so long as you are solid in high school and didn’t bomb the SAT by too much, you have a chance. but unless you have the goods and come across as being a true standout, even then you prolly wont get into CU or other top schools these days.</p>

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<p>My daughter is a biracial URM, admitted to the class of 2009. A few weeks ago I had a conversation with a co-worker whose child applied for 2009 and was not accepted. During our conversation, which was observed by others, the co-worker stated my daughter’s URM status was what got her in over his child. You could have heard a pin drop when I replied I didn’t think so and perhaps the breadth and depth (athletics, leadership, performing arts, etc.) of my daughter’s overall application which included a perfect 800 score on a section of the SAT and a 97th percentile ACT composite score had more to do with why she was admitted . While I could not speak for his child, unless he could say the same, we should end the conversation before it got any more embarrassing.</p>