URM- unsure whether applying for BS is a good idea

Prep School Admissions
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<p>My 9th grade hispanic daughter last week brought up the idea of boarding school. I "think" she got this idea because she has heard from peers or friends who went off to boarding school and perhaps came home for a weekend about how great it is. She continues to talk about it and wants me to look into it.</p>

<p>I'm contemplating whether it is a good idea or not. Her ultimate goal is to get into Princeton, Yale, Harvard, or Stanford. She also has the potential/dream of maybe playing a sport at one of those universities (yes I know that is a lofty dream).</p>

<p>A little about my daughter and why I am contemplating even applying...</p>

<p>She attends a "good" private high school in her state. For anonymous sake I will say... in Florida and rank it as somewhere in the 10th-15th best private school (I.e. It's a big state in the South where boarding school is not really heard of too often). She is in all honors classes, currently making 5 A's, 1 A-, and 1 B+ (though her grades are cumulative and her transcript will just have the final grade at the end of the year in each class). Her private high school is 85%+ caucasian. I anticpate that if she stays put, she will end up in the top 5 of her graduating class of about 175 students. I also anticipate that she will probably score about 2100-2150 on the SAT at the end of her junior year. Not great, but certainly not bad... especially for a latina female.</p>

<p>In middle school she attended one of the "best" private middle schools in the state. Most likely one of the top 2 or 3 in the state. She was in all honors classes and never made a B, thus her class rank would have been #1 (tied with 2 other kids) out of about 100. Her private middle school was 90%+ caucasian. She won numerous athletic, academic, and art (both visual arts and performing arts) awards in middle school. She scored over 600 in math and writing on the SAT in 7th grade. Her stanines on the ISSE applying for private high schools were 8,7,6, and 6. Not great, but not bad.... probably about 80-85th percentile overall. </p>

<p>She is extremely passionate about art (both painting/drawing and musicals)... and has won the Scholastic Art award twice, math (currently self-studying for AMC 10 to try to qualify for AIME and USAMO), and languages (fluent in English and Spanish and wants to learn Mandarin, French, Italian, Portuguese, and Latin). </p>

<p>Athletics... She is phenomal in too many sports, unfortunately. Coaches cross their fingers hoping they will play her sport in the respective season because she absolutely dominates whatever sport she plays. She is top notch at volleyball, soccer, basketball, lacrosse, and softball. She played and dominated in all of them in middle school and on numerous club teams. This is absolutely a "hook" for her as she really is the best player on her team and on any opposing team she has ever played against, in any of the above sports she chooses to play. </p>

<p>She has divorced parents, both of whom make less than $40,000/year. She was raised by her mother, who only speaks Spanish. My daughter is half latina as her mother is from a Latin American country. She chose the school she attends over other private schools in the area because of their athletics reputation and the coaches. There are numerous coaches at this school who have had past kids turn out to be great Division I collegiate athletes at top schools. Education wise her school is a "good" private day school, but it's not the best in the state academically... probably ranks between 10-15th, which is not shabby by any means. </p>

<p>Here is my dilemma. She's a URM hispanic. Knowing she will end up in the top 5 of her class out of about 175 students, knowing she will make most likely between 2100-2150 on her SAT after Junior Year (not great, but certainly not bad for a hispanic female), knowing the coaches just absolutely love her and will provide her a great opportunity to prepare to play collegiate athletics (assuming she continues to dominate in whatever sport she ends up deciding to "really" focus on), would it be foolish to apply to boarding school? I mean, a hispanic female that ends up as a top 5 student at an all-white very well respected private day school, who scores 2100-2150 on her SAT, in itself seems to me like she has a great shot at an IVY league school. If that is the goal, wouldn't it make sense to stay put? Throw in the mix that she might even have a chance to play a sport in college and I hate to see that all potentially get messed up.</p>

<p>My concerns... what if she goes to Andover, Exeter, Choate, Deerfield, etc and ends up in the middle somewhere? Or even top 25% versus a top 5 student. What if she applys and decides not to go? What are her winter and spring sport coaches going to think once she applys? If I were a coach I wouldn't possibly let a freshman play on the varsity team knowing there is a good chance she is leaving at the end of the year. What are the directors, counselors, etc of her current school going to think? She gets "significant" FA at her $25K+/yr private school. What if she decides to stay? I kind of think people may not be so fond of her for even applying elsewhere. </p>

<p>I keep going over in my head on "why" she has brought this up. I can think of a few things... 1) In middle school she had her 4-5 "best" friends. They all went to different schools. While my daughter is friendly with everyone, and she is someone people just naturally enjoy being around she hasn't found any new "best" friends. 2) She is a very humble girl and her mother and I both don't make a whole heck of a lot of money. She attends a school where about 10-15% of the kids get financial aid. There are a lot of very high wage earner parents at her school. Most of the parents make $200K+/yr. A large percentage of them live in $1 million+ homes. I nor her mother are anywhere close to that, which means perhaps that humbleness is changing a bit. Perhaps she thinks boarding school is a whole different environment where people might not be as concerned (or her for that matter) with material possessions. Don't get me wrong, her mother and I both spend a lot to make sure she has everything she needs and gets most of what she wants. What is boarding school like in that aspect? </p>

<p>Reading all the above, I am looking for advise on whether people think boarding school is even a good idea. I really am concerned that even applying could really turn out to ruin her future. I.e. If she were to stay, things probably wouldn't be the same anymore. If she were to go, is she going to be any better off than being a top 5 student with a 2100-2150 on her SAT as a hispanic URM at a very well respected private day school? I hate to see her go and then be in the middle of the pack and not get into the universities she wants to get into in a few years, and also not have the chance to play collegiate sports if she chooses to do so (assuming she would continue on the path of being good enough to do so). I appreciate all thoughts and opinions as it really is a tough choice for me to even consider letting her do so or not. I personally only know of 3 other kids that go to boarding schools. All 3 of them go to top schools. The difference is they applied after 8th grade, so they weren't in the position of hurting anyone's feelings or seeming like they weren't grateful for what they have been given... which is kind of the position I feel like we would be in if we were to apply right now in the middle of 9th grade. I know some of her coaches are going to be devastated if we go through with this.</p>

<p>Thoughts?</p>

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<p>Wow,</p>

<p>This is going to take a while for us to digest. Some initial thoughts:</p>

<p>If she’s in a good school already, her chances of matriculating to an IVY may or may not be enhanced as a great percentage of BS students are probably applying to the same schools.</p>

<p>But that’s not why you should consider it.</p>

<p>BS is as much about climate and experience as it is about college preparation. My straight A, top state test scoring child had to work extra hard because despite how good her grades had been, boarding school was ten times harder. She’s well prepped for college now because she’s adjusted to the new rigor and pacing.</p>

<p>One caution - the “entry” in the BS is different for every kid but it is still rough the first two months. Many students see the “rosy” descriptions of boarding school and go expecting a utopian society. But it’s hard work. Harder than what your D is experiencing now. Add to that developing friends, navigating classes, creating relationships with teachers. The atmosphere is very similar to a college environment - only at a high school level. </p>

<p>What the student gets, however, is confidence and independence. They develop the ability to navigate the world without us much earlier than their local peers. And colleges know that. </p>

<p>It can also be a lot of fun as my D will attest.</p>

<p>In your PM (which you asked me to answer here) you asked “If this were your daughter would you let her go to boarding school?” The answer is, that “was” my daughter and I did let her go. It was a gut wrenching decision because I knew I would miss her. But she chose to do it, did the research, and went.</p>

<p>I supported her decision because, despite the opportunities at local private schools, she was going to get so much more at boarding school in terms of economic and global diversity. She now has friends all over the world and was exposed to technology and resources not available here. She’s traveled to Europe twice as part of school sponsored activities.</p>

<p>Here’s my suggestion. Go visit a few. Walk the campus. My husband who had no familiarity with BS environments other than he’d married a BS grad did that. And was blown away.</p>

<p>Don’t focus on economics or her ethnic background. It is also not relevant how her current school/coaches are going to feel. It is natural they won’t want to lose her and may try to discourage her from applying. </p>

<p>Focus instead on her needs. Does she want to go because her friends said it was fun? (it may or may not be depending on the school she attends) Or does she want to go because it’s a good next step in her development? The only way to know for sure is to visit a few (because campus vibes are all different depending on the school). And then go from there. Either she “feels” the pull, or she doesn’t.</p>

<p>I asked my daughter to attend a summer program at Exeter so she’d know if BS was right for her. There’s a difference between the fantasy and the reality. In our case, she was nervous on day one, had to be dragged off campus kicking and screaming by the end of the program. There was no looking back after that and we have no regrets.</p>

<p>But every family is different. As for college admissions? Really - she’s not going to be hurt by staying or going. Adcoms look at the “whole” kid and their unique circumstances in addition to school stats. </p>

<p>Being “Latina” doesn’t guarantee that she will get a spot at a Boarding school. School needs change each year. Some very good schools turn down very good students because it’s not a good fit. Or there are too few spots for too many kids (just wanted to warn you.)</p>

<p>One thing struck me though - the SAT comment. </p>

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</p>

<p>Can I tell you as a URM admissions interviewer that you can’t bank on her being a Latina female to help mitigate scores and pull her application to the top of a pile. Too many parents are still hopeful that being a URM is a “hook.” It’s like saying “she’s not the best but she’s much better than other URM girls like her.” That’s probably the wrong mindset. So many other things play into the decision making. Being in the top 5 is significant if the school is already recognized as academically challenging and without grade inflation. Otherwise, the competition is growing by the day.</p>

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<p>She sounds like she is very successful in her current school, and it is meeting her needs academically and athletically.</p>

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<p>It sounds as if she’s flourishing on all fronts at her current school. I don’t think changing to a boarding school will improve her college chances.</p>

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<p>I really wish she was in 8th grade right now, applying for 9th. Unfortunately, she is in 9th so it’s apply now for 10th or wait another year and see if she enjoys her day school more.</p>

<p>Academically and athletically I think her needs are definitely being met. I just don’t think she “loves” her day school, like she did her middle school. I also think that socially she really enjoyed her middle school.</p>

<p>I ask her regularly how she likes her high school and she gives the same answers… “It’s fine or it’s good,” while I know it’s really just ok. Perhaps I’m thinking too much because I absolutely “loved” my high school… which she would not thrive at as I went to a public school that now has about 1000 kids per class. </p>

<p>Social events, I see her off doing things with friends from other schools as opposed to really her friends at her new school. She goes to other schools football games, as opposed to her school’s football games, other school’s homecomings, etc. I really just want her to be somewhere that she 100% loves, and I hate to say it but I don’t think she loves her schoool.</p>

<p>She is at the top academically, athletically, and in numerous EC’s. I assume that would stay pretty similar at a boarding school. I certainly don’t think she would drop significantly, albeit I could see her being lower on the totem pole academically when put in a class that has a bunch of kids just like her. Right now, I would say that about 30 of the kids out of the 175 are academically close to her. I.e. In all honors classes. I assume at a boarding school at least 75% will be academically similar to her. So she would perhaps fall down in the pack a bit. That is where my question lies. </p>

<p>I’m really in a quandry on what to do as I just don’t want to mess up a good thing… I.e. great chances to get into a good college if she stays put versus actually “enjoying and loving” her high school years.</p>

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<p>Do students from her high school apply to the colleges you’re most concerned about? If they apply, do applicants like your daughter get in? You could ask the high school’s college counseling department for Naviance data if you’re concerned. If she’ll be in the top 5 of a respected day school, she’s all set.</p>

<p>High school is different from middle school. Most kids have closer, but much smaller circles of friends in high school. Don’t assume that transferring to a boarding school will make her social life happier. Starting all over in making friends can be hard. If she’s a natural athlete, staying in a warm climate, where she can work on her sports skills year-round, will be a big advantage when she applies to college.</p>

<p>Don’t underestimate the importance of contact with family. If she’s doing as well as you say, I don’t see a strategic need to change to a boarding school. She’ll stand out wherever she is. Don’t deprive her of the possibility of growing up at home, without great need.</p>

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<p>That is some great advise. I was really starting to lean toward the boarding school idea, and this makes me back up a few steps.</p>

<p>I think you are probably right (I hope so), that it just takes some time to really be clicking on all cylinders on the social front. I imagine going to a whole new world (boarding school) would be similar along that front, especially considering she would be entering in 10th grade.</p>

<p>As for her high school stats. I know that 5-6 kids went to Ivys last year (out of about 175). I do not know how many applied. I have seen a link on the school website about Naviance. I will try to familiarize myself with it and get some more solid numbers. </p>

<p>Thanks for the post</p>

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<p>The question here, I think, is that she is asking to go. If they don’t explore it now, her options dwindle dramatically. Most BS students enter in the 9th and 10th grade (I entered 10th, so did my daughter). Beyond that, there are very few spots available.</p>

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<p>I think, if he’s on the fence, he should investigate. But time is running out for the family because she’s got to test before the end of January to be considered eligible. They can always decide that it’s not the right decision if accepted to a school. In that case they can decline. But if she’s pushing the family to investigate and they wait until next year to explore this - the odds are she’ll be shut out of the process for good.</p>

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<p>Yes, for the OP, if you’re willing to consider the option, your daughter must take the SSAT, visit and interview at schools, and finish the applications by mid or late January. As you don’t live in wintry New England, I would recommend you visit the schools if you can. There are a number of fine boarding schools in the Mid Atlantic, too, so don’t limit your search to New England.</p>

<p>However, don’t do it because you think it’ll improve her college outcomes. From what you’ve described, I’d say she’d be in the running for any college if she stayed at home. As she continues through high school, she will receive more leadership positions. If you have any doubts on this point, make an appointment with a local independent college counselor. [Independent</a> Educational Consultants Association | IECA](<a href=“http://www.iecaonline.com/]Independent”>http://www.iecaonline.com/) You may have to pay a fee for the consultation, but a small fee for a few hours of her time may help to allay any concerns you might have.</p>

<p>Your daughter will also be able to see her friends at home, including the home friends who attend other local schools.</p>

<p>My children are (knock on wood) doing well at their boarding schools. It can be wonderful, if children pursue it for the right reasons. There will always be bumps along the way. Some children discover they aren’t thriving at boarding school, and decide to return home.</p>

<p>Be aware that some students exaggerate how wonderful everything is.</p>

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<p>@URM,</p>

<p>To echo the comment of other posters, don’t send her to BS with the expectation that it will increase her chance of HYPS, send her there with the expectation that BS will stretch her intellectually, physically, socially. </p>

<p>Truth is that many kids who are the top of the pack at their present school are humbled by working their butts off even harder and finding themselves only at the middle of the pack at an elite BS. That’s what our DS discovered this freshman year, but he and the parents have no regrets. We see him growing so much in this new environment. </p>

<p>If you do decide the BS path, it is not too late to pursue. We made the decision to pursue the path at Xmas time last year. It was a frantic rush to apply, test, interview, but it was do-able.</p>

<p>Another option you might consider for you 9th grade D, is the Repeat student option. There is a recent thread on the Prep School Parents board on that subject:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1231415-repeat-students-academic-red-shirting.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1231415-repeat-students-academic-red-shirting.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>While it is usually boys who apply as “repeats”, it is becoming increasingly common for girls.</p>

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<p>Being a URM has no cut-offs for scores. For example, my cousin (he is hispanic) applied to Stanford EA with a 2200 on the SAT. When he recieved his admission decision, he was deferred. He too is from Florida and attended a private school. Of course he was accepted in the RD session of the admissions process, but there is no way to assume the possibilities of getting in.</p>

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<p>Good points @GMT. And parents should know that “repeating” at a Boarding school is not the same as repeating elsewhere - the students take whatever level of class they are ready for. It simply allows for an extra year to take advanced and AP classes. Or it gives them an extra year of cushion if they want to pursue programs such as School Year Abroad while still getting in several years at the Boarding school. It’s more common that we think.</p>

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<p>A lot of good replies. Very tough decision. </p>

<p>A question about the study year abroad. Theoretically, how would colleges view it if she applied as a repeat freshman simply so she can do a year abroad? </p>

<p>Can anyone do a year abroad or is it only a chosen few. I see in the SYA program that they take about 60 kids from a bunch of different schools. That’s not a whole lot (I gathered it was a 60 combined).</p>

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<p>@URM,</p>

<p>Elite colleges have close ties w the eltie BS’s and are familiar with the “repeat” phenomenon and the opportunities it avails for students to further their pursuits.</p>

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<p>SYA takes 60. They don’t care if you repeat. You’re not penalized if you don’t repeat. That shouldn’t be a factor. It’s only a factor for those parents who want at least three years of boarding school experience instead of two. My D entered BS as a sophomore and SYA on year later as a Junior. It didn’t count against her during the application process. SYA looks at language proficiency, ability to interact in a diverse culture, and relies heavily on the school’s recommendation for “fit” in the program.</p>

<p>SYA takes both Juniors and Seniors. Seniors fly back in time for graduation with their “home” class. There are full-time college counselors at each SYA site and the students are on track with SAT’s, PSAT’s, etc. </p>

<p>Although most students in SYA are from boarding schools, the program also admits students who are from public or other private schools so technically, your daughter could apply from her home school. SYA also has several five week summer programs and a single semester program in one or two countries.</p>

<p>You’ll find answers to your questions here: [School</a> Year Abroad - Home Page](<a href=“http://www.sya.org%5DSchool”>http://www.sya.org)</p>

<p>Yes - they take 60 students from across the country for each of the international sites. It is competitive, but not impossibly so.</p>

<p>Lastly - the matriculation to top schools is pretty strong. It is one of the factors we considered before our family chose to participate.</p>

<p>[School</a> Year Abroad - Colleges and SYA](<a href=“http://www.admissions.sya.org/s/833/index.aspx?sid=833&gid=1&pgid=358]School”>http://www.admissions.sya.org/s/833/index.aspx?sid=833&gid=1&pgid=358)</p>

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<p>Boarding school isn’t just about getting into colleges. It’s about widening your horizons and challenging yourself. If she goes to the right boarding school, she would be in an environment that would help her reach her potential, not just in college choices, but also herself. Think about how the BS would benefit your daughter as a person, not just her college choices.</p>

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<p>It’s probably a mistake to send a child to a top boarding school for the primary purpose of increasing chances for a HYPMS. Our child was the top student and top athlete of a well known New England private day school, and yet we choice a boarding school for the high school years. We believe our child’s college choice coming out of Deerfield wouldn’t differ 1 bit, had our kid just stayed in the previous day school.
However, we strongly believe that boarding school better prepares students for college, and life in general. We have a boarding school background, so perhaps we’re a little biased.
Apply for boarding school because you believe the experience would be of value, and not for college matriculation chances. In a way, since your daughter is already doing just fine, there’s nothing to lose by applying to the top boarding schools. If she doesn’t get accepted, big deal, she stays home and will still do great.</p>

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<p>One of the things we like most about boarding school, is now our child is challenged. Instead of being a two sport varsity starter while still in 7th/8th grade at the previous school, now it’s a battle to get a regular starting spot. That’s how it goes in the big boarding schools, since many of the kids were also the best students and athletes of their previous schools. Academically, instead of an outstanding GPA without ever studying weekends at the previous school, now it’s a huge effort to even get an A-.</p>

<p>Check out this article. Some will disagree with it, but we believe it’s right on.</p>

<p>What if the Secret to Success Is Failure?
<a href=“What if the Secret to Success Is Failure? - The New York Times”>What if the Secret to Success Is Failure? - The New York Times;

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<p>@URMtop5,</p>

<p>If your daughter is half Latina, then doesn’t that make her at least half-Caucasian? I am assuming you are Caucasian dad since you make no mention of any other M component. If your D has been attending a great middle school and high school and is expected to finish in the top5, then why make such a big issue about her half-URM status?</p>

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<p>URMtop5 on 11-16-2011:

</p>

<p>URMtop5 on 12-11-2012:

</p>

<p>I’ve never done this kind of post before, but here it goes. Well, first of all, congratulations on more than doubling up your income in a span of one year! I must say that’s quite a feat.</p>

<p>Now, my income is not that different from yours but I have paid all the application fees, test fees, gas, meals, hotels (Oh, we managed to find hotels where three of us can stay in one room), and you name it. Yes, adding all these up, it quickly became a handsome amount of money. But so far I have gladly put up with bills at the prospect of great education for DC. </p>

<p>The priorities in my family budget is pretty clear: we can’t afford to ski at Jackson Hole but surely we can afford to pay application fees without help. Jeez, I thought fee waiver was for someone who’d get subsidized lunch. Totally sickening…</p>