<p>Hunt – the obvious answer of a group that should be looking into CS, but is overwhelming looking at over-subscribed fields (like biology) would be female students, since the number of female CS majors in this country is fewer than 5% (down from a high of 35% in the 1980’s).</p>
<p>Or maybe it isn’t even that their math/science skills are lacking but their EXPOSURE to computer science and understanding what computer science is about is what’s lacking. A lot of people automatically think “code monkey” when you mention working in computer science.
My son’s only exposure to science so far has been what he’s received in school. Definitely not very appealing. Then last summer he had a summer non-STEM related internship that was sponsored by a pharmaceutical company and they had employees come in to talk about their jobs. Suddenly he wanted to go into biomedical research. When I asked why, he said that the scientists he spoke to seemed like fun people, not serious and by the numbers like he imagined scientists to be.</p>
<p>What is the evidence that female students who would like to be studying computer science are not doing so?</p>
<p>Here’s a thought–if there are students who are undecided when they show up at college about whether they’d like to do a STEM major or something else, what is their first introduction to college level science, as opposed to college level history, or English, or philosophy? How likely is it to captivate their imaginations?</p>
<p>Thank you, thank you, Hunt. This whole argument seems to be about moaning “people aren’t interested in the fields <em>I</em> think they should be interested in.” Look, STEM fields are interesting to some people, and not to others. So be it. The great thing is - this is a free country and students are free to study any field of study that interests them and/or they think will make them money, as they see fit. </p>
<p>Frankly I think this country would do a lot better if we had more Arabic majors, or Russian majors, or Chinese majors. Those are more important, IMO, than a few more biology majors. Or even CS majors.</p>
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<p>Same could be said for any field, though. Plenty of hs school students have no idea what it is to major in X or have a career in X, until they get to school and get exposed to it. Why is it so much sad-face-making when it comes to CS (or STEM)?</p>
<p>Most students are not exposed to musicology until it is too late. (But it’s NEVER too late!)</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, I agree. But STEM majors often need to start off taking the appropriate courses if they want to graduate timely, whereas many humanities offer way more flexibility in course requirements and sequencing. Maybe by the time a student discovers an interest in a STEM field, they are already a year or two behind the curve so to speak. So I think discovering an interest in STEM once you’re in college might be more of a disadvantage than discovering an interest in a humanity.</p>
<p>Doubt it. Not if one is hoping to get an advanced degree. Ph.Ds in the humanities commonly take seven years, and reading knowledge of at least two (and often three) other languages. And without passing on the language exams, one can’t pass on to candidacy.</p>
<p>The result is I know lots of folks who went on to advanced degrees in CS in their 40s. But I think I know of precisely one in the humanities.</p>
<p>Oh, so the real problem is that there are tons of students who really, really desire to major in STEM fields, but don’t discover it til their sophomore year, so they sadly put away their dreams of STEM-majoring because they can’t fit the requirements into 4 years? Is that the real problem that people are concerned over?</p>
<p>And people in this thread still write as if all STEM majors are the same for the purpose of the subjects’ labor market conditions and the like…</p>
<p>Nope, I didn’t say that was the “real” problem. Honestly, I don’t know what the problem is. But that K-12 schools are lacking in math and science prep always seems to be the go-to argument of why there aren’t enough STEM majors. I was only offering a different suggestion. I’m also totally open to the idea that there is no problem. Has anyone posted a link to stats on how many unfilled STEM jobs there are?</p>
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<p>Indeed. The US has plenty of American-born and educated biology majors who are unemployed. The dept. manager of my local Barnes and Noble was a math major at a top 15 Uni, who graduated with honors. </p>
<p>Comp Sci, mentioned up thread, ebbs and flows. It wasn’t too long ago that US undergrad colleges were reducing their Comp Sci offerings due to lack of interest (post dot-com bubble burst).</p>
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<p>Four years can make quite a difference in economic and industry conditions.</p>
<p>The many freshmen who started CS in 1998 during the bubble graduated into the depths of the bust. But the fewer freshmen who started CS in 2002 in the depths of the bust graduated into an improving CS job market.</p>
<p>On the other hand, economic upswings do not seem to help biology graduates much.</p>
<p>Noted how the article says “lags behind even Portugal…” as if those countries are inferior academically and we should be ashamed to be so…</p>
<p>I still don’t see what the issue is with “not enough.” In a free market economy, if there are “not enough” STEM graduates, then they’'ll be highly paid and people will flow to those majors.</p>
<p>^^^That isn’t how it works. First, salaried positions are required to work 60-80 hrs/ wk when they used to work 40. Then the jobs are outsourced to Asia, etc.</p>
<p>Well, if things get outsourced to Asia, etc., that means that we have a comparative advantage in other things, and so maybe it’s not worth our time to develop STEM expertise if we can buy it off the shelf cheaper. Just sayin’.</p>
<p>I just want to chime in and ask why the USA is competing with these countries anyway? Honestly, we aren’t comparing apples to apples. Personally, as a parent of a high schooler, and one in college, I think the problem lies in the teachers and the competition/pressure. We live on Long Island, NY. Yes, the place where the big SAT cheating scandal erupted. Because our kids have to compete with these other nations in math and science, cheating has become an epidemic. Is it right? Absolutely NOT. But thats what happens when American students are asked to do and to be so many things. Personally, I am tired of this country trying to keep up with other countries. In the USA we value having a well rounded education, not just a math and science education. Our kids play varsity sports. Yes, many of them play more than one and they excel. Or at least are expected to. In addition, they play outside club sports, participate in church functions, are active in school clubs, and are required to do well in English, Social Studies, Science, Math and a Global language, not to mention a host of other electives that one must take to once again look well rounded. I feel like American students are pulled in ten different directions. And remember on top of doing all those things they are still teenagers, learning to deal with the opposite sex, learning to be comfortable with themesves, etc etc etc. Oh and get a job during the summer, so you can show colleges that your a responsible, hardworking teen. Personally, it annoys me when the media portrays American students as subpar because we can’t compete with Asian societies. I am proud of the students i know and the two I am raising. No, they aren’t genius math and science kids, but they do well. And they are extremely socialable, well liked, active, atheletic kids. I wouldn’t trade that for any science/math kid from Asia. And, my kids are HAPPY! Not sure that can be said for everyone else. We live in a different society. We place values on other things. I don’t want to see anymore pressure placed on my kids because some 3rd world nation produces better math students then the USA. </p>
<p>I live in a school district with a large Asian community. I am not putting anyone down but as a whole those students do not play sports, and aren’t extremely social. They are good kids but their lives revolve around academics. Do they deserve their genius reputation. Absolutely, they work endlessly to do well in Math and Science. Thats great! I’m not knocking it. I just think variety is the spice of life and American students shouldn’t be put down for not being as motivated or driven by the sciences and math. If everyone were scientists and mathematicians then who would take care of them when they needed a therapist? </p>
<p>Lastly, I can only speak for my school district but we have terrible math and science teachers, as a whole. Some of that problem stems from the labor unions and the tenure system that allows for too much job security, which prohibits poor functioning teachers from being removed. We need to overhaul the education system but something tells me that will not happen in my lifetime:( In the meantime, leave American students alone. They have more than enough on their plates…</p>
<p>As everyone here knows, STEM graduates are just boring drones obsessed with money.</p>