<p>Read the following post from another cc thread.</p>
<p>Today, 03:11 AM #52<br>
DonnaL
Junior Member</p>
<p>Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Jersey
Gender: Female
Threads: 4
Posts: 75 I assume people already know that the 2009 edition is on sale at newsstands today – at least at Grand Central Station in New York City, where I bought a copy on my way back to work from a court appearance this afternoon.</p>
<p>Here are the top 25 National Universities (the list looks pretty similar to me to last year’s – and every year’s – without actually comparing them):</p>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Cal Tech</li>
<li>U. Penn</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>U. of Chicago</li>
<li>Dartmouth</li>
<li>Northwestern</li>
<li>Wash U St. Louis</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins</li>
<li>Brown</li>
<li>Rice</li>
<li>Emory</li>
<li>Notre Dame</li>
<li>Vanderbilt</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon</li>
<li>Georgetown</li>
<li>U. of Virginia</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
</ol>
<p>Just a reminder: this is based on data that is 2 years old, because of a lag in reporting data.. The student stats are based on the Class of 2011 (now rising Sophomores. This was the first year that NU accept the Common App. The Class of 11 and the class of 2012 have been MUCH more impressive than earlier years. The double-digit spike in applicants, steady acceptance rate, and 50 jump in SAT scores all help. Also, Bienen has done a tremendous job building up the endowment, which affects many of USNWR factors.
Assuming the formula isn't tweaked to help HYP again, NU might be looking at top 10 in the next two years.</p>
<p>It's semantics, but we are now ranked ABOVE TWO IVIES (cornell and brown). This is super important in fending off the "Ivy reject" stereotype...which just isn't true. We now have facts and stats on our side.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's semantics, but we are now ranked ABOVE TWO IVIES (cornell and brown). This is super important in fending off the "Ivy reject" stereotype...which just isn't true. We now have facts and stats on our side.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, we have been above Cornell/Brown most of the time since the new millennium. We were even ranked the 9th for two years around the mid-90s; coincidentally, we had an awesome football team in those two years.</p>
<p>Good point, but few have such a long memory as you do. 17 year olds (and their helicopter parents) don't care about history. I'll consider us lucky if they look as far back as <em>gasp</em> 2006. Considering that, especially on the east coast, NU's reputation is overshadowed by the Ivies/Duke/MIT, it is important to beat some Ivies. Cornell and Brown do not need to sweat their drop in the rankings. Let's be honest, those schools are only in the top 20 because of their Ivy-affiliation. Cornell will never collapse because some poor kid with a high 1300s SAT score who HAS to go to an ivy is willing to settle.
We don't have that luxury. We need to sell ourselves and myriad factors which are somewhat temporary: selectivity, faculty, resources, and of course FOOTBALL.</p>
<p>What a rediculous asssertionl. Trust me no one actually considers Northwestern to be better than Brown. its a great school, but rankings don't tell all. I do agree that is deserves to be top 15 with Wash U, but that doesn't mean your all of a sudden "better" than Brown. I would say you and Wash U are peers of Cornell.</p>
<p>Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but if a school (NU) jumps 2 places, but another (Cornell and Brown) drop 4 and 2, respectively. Then obviously NU is doing something right, focusing on the right areas, admitting a more selective group of kids, while the ancient ivies you mentioned are plodding along with business as usual. </p>
<p>In my personal opinion, NU has recognized the increasing need to recognize rankings put out by Forbes, USNWR and the Princeton Review. Believe it or not, kids make their college decisions based off of a ranking they see on the computer screen. I personally believe that NU is attempting to raise their rank to the highest possible to appeal to those who look at MIT, Yale and Stanford and get some of those elite students applying on a more regular basis.</p>
<p>So, in a way, yes, Northwestern is becoming a better school. The endowment has jumped 1 billion in the past two years. SATs/ACTs and GPAs are equal to Yale's, applications are jumping in unforeseen numbers and the acceptance rate surges ever lower. This is a sign of greater students coming into the school, which, in turn brings more renown faculty, and the cycle continues.</p>
<p>Furthermore, when the average man sees NU above two Ivy's, and doesn't know the methodology behind the rankings (and trust me, 99.9% of people don't) they are going to be "holy crap, these must be good schools". It's the sort of reaction that NU is attempting to create for themselves.</p>
<p>On another matter, I read on the USNWR that the rankings aren't published until tomorrow....(8 minutes w/e).</p>
<p>Northwestern is more known internationally due to its much better graduate programs. It may not be fair for college comparison but that's the reality and that's the world you live in. I am not saying Northwestern is better than Brown or vice versa but I am just disputing your claim that "no one actually considers Northwestern to be better than Brown". I am surprised by your dramatic reaction. I am sorry if our little party within our own forum disturbs you so much.</p>
<p>while it is nice to see that NU's ranking got better, it is important to note that these rankings do not really matter. just because NU got a ranking higher than Cornell doesn't mean that NU is better all of a sudden starting today. but that also doesn't mean that NU was worse than Cornell up till yesterday. virtually all the top 25 schools are GREAT in different aspects. i really wanna know who first came up with the stupid idea of ranking them</p>
<p>My mother, whose two sons go/went to NU and Brown, said to me yesterday "well I always knew you went to a better school than your brother." And she said that in front of the two of us... clearly not being partial.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Cornell and Brown do not need to sweat their drop in the rankings. Let's be honest, those schools are only in the top 20 because of their Ivy-affiliation.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Thats why I made a comment. Northwestern is not as selective as Brown, its students aren't as strong, its not as prestigious and it doesn't do as well in grad school admissions and job placement. Is it a great school, yes. Do rankings like this matter, somewhat. Yet, people here comparing Northwestern to HYP now? I am just giving you a realty check. A friend of mine chose Northwestern over Duke recently for financial reasons and people thought he was insane, Northwestern still has awhile to go....</p>
<p>
[quote]
Thats why I made a comment. Northwestern is not as selective as Brown, its students aren't as strong, its not as prestigious and it doesn't do as well in grad school admissions and job placement. Is it a great school, yes. Do rankings like this matter, somewhat. Yet, people here comparing Northwestern to HYP now? I am just giving you a realty check. A friend of mine chose Northwestern over Duke recently for financial reasons and people thought he was insane, Northwestern still has awhile to go....
[/quote]
</p>
<ol>
<li>No one compared NU to HYP. In fact, the only references to HYP, besides your own, were a mention of the US News' historic tendency of tweaking its formula to keep the three on top, and an accurate comparison of objective data between NU and Yale- no mention of any of your other factors.</li>
</ol>
<p>As for the rest of your points:</p>
<ol>
<li>It's students are only barely weaker.</li>
<li>It is much MORE prestigious internationally and in the midwest, I can tell you that much. Brown is arguably the LEAST known Ivy, and very few people outside the country know of it due to its undergraduate focus. As far as grad schools, it's not even a contest- Kellog, Medill, NU Law and Feinberg (Medicine) are all top programs, Brown has... well Brown medical is pretty ok.</li>
<li>Job placement- your claims are patently false and belie your ignorance.</li>
<li><p>Grad school placement- I'm not familiar, honestly, but I know that NU has an almost unbelievably high medical school admissions rate (somewhere near 80%)- I would wager the grad school placements are on par.</p></li>
<li><p>Finally, the selectivity factor has a large amount to do with Brown's being half the size of NU while receiving many, many more applications as a result of a combination of factors, including, but not limited to: closer proximity to the most densely populated areas of the country (and therefore increased appeal); Ivy League affiliation; increased desirability to ALL HS students for lack of any distribution requirements and a high student happiness rating (great assets to be sure). </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Thus in conclusion, to use the phraseology of the common Internet Troll...</p>
<p>Before you claim Northwestern students "aren't as strong", please examine what you mean by that. I'd guess our music students probably blow Brown's students away in terms of performance skills; our theater/flim students enjoy better reputation and representation in the entertainment industry. And if you were thinking about test scores, I get the following for you from collegeboard.com:</p>
<p>SAT:
Brown CR 660 - 760, M 670 - 770
Northwestern CR 670 - 750 M 680 - 770
ACT:
Brown 28 - 33
Northwestern 30 - 34</p>
<p>Even Brown is more selective with a lower admit rate, at the end of the day, NU student body is very much on par with Brown student body as far as test scores go.</p>
<p>Bescraze, I've already told you Northwestern is more well know and prestigious internationally due to its much better graduate schools. Instead of coming up something to refute that, all you did was just making a hollow statement. I hope you can do better than this next time. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Thats why I made a comment. Northwestern is not as selective as Brown, its students aren't as strong, its not as prestigious and it doesn't do as well in grad school admissions and job placement. Is it a great school, yes. Do rankings like this matter, somewhat. Yet, people here comparing Northwestern to HYP now? I am just giving you a realty check. A friend of mine chose Northwestern over Duke recently for financial reasons and people thought he was insane, Northwestern still has awhile to go....
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No one here claimed that NU is comparable to HYP in prestige. And why mention Duke? We never inferred that we're necessarily better than Duke. We're comparing NU to Brown in this case. The main reason why its acceptance rate is much lower is likely due to the fact that it's an Ivy and that it has a very free curriculum, which of course, may be beneficial to many students. As others have mentioned, NU has much stronger programs than Brown--Kellogg, Bienen School of Music, Medill, and Feinberg are all top programs. All Brown has to offer is their medical school, in terms of graduate programs. There is little reason to argue that Brown students are superior to those at NU.</p>
<p>Yeah, I agree with you guys. Northwestern is a better school overall,especially in the sciences. But it is ranked a little too high this year. It shouldn't be tied with Washu. before you start to rip on me, I want to let you know that I dont attend washu, nor do I have any connections with washu.</p>
<p>...I laugh. Because you've got to be kidding me.
WashU is totally overrated. Not saying that it's a bad school. It totally deserves its spot on the rankings. But to say that NU is not up to WashU's level?
It's not just the sciences/engineering, dreamteam. Does WashU have a top music school? Journalism school? School of communications? And I'm not even gonna go to NU's grad schools.
I don't know where you're from, dreamteam. Maybe from St. Louis? El oh el.</p>