<p>It might be interesting to see the PA scores replaced by a Peer-driven weighting of an expanded set of objective measurements. The Peers would not vote on colleges, they’d only vote on criteria. How many points should SAT scores be worth? etc.</p>
<p>Apologize for some of my grammatical stuff in some of my earlier posts on this thread…</p>
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<p>Possibly the first triple-nested quote on this board…</p>
<p>Performing arts, art, film majors, etc are judged with many other things in mind: auditions, portfolio, etc. I don’t think it’s necessary that any of these majors shows forth with an 800 on the math part of the SAT or straight-A’s.</p>
<p>No different than Bama taking a fb player who shows well on the field of play rather than the classroom.</p>
<p>Not less qualified, just different admission criteria.</p>
<p>It’s surprising to see Princeton so high but it is an ivf league school.</p>
<p>Why is it surprising to see Princeton at #1?<br>
A real surprise would be to see it anywhere below #3.</p>
<p>UT Austin isn’t even there in the list!
really?!</p>
<p>^ It’s #40 something…way too low along with a bunch of others.
Peer assessment is more accurate.</p>
<p>*mom2: Oh yes…those in performing arts/etc majors shouldn’t be judged with stats since such right brain people may not test well or have great GPAs. </p>
<p>===================</p>
<p>Possibly the first triple-nested quote on this board…</p>
<p>Performing arts, art, film majors, etc are judged with many other things in mind: auditions, portfolio, etc. I don’t think it’s necessary that any of these majors shows forth with an 800 on the math part of the SAT or straight-A’s.</p>
<p>No different than Bama taking a fb player who shows well on the field of play rather than the classroom.</p>
<p>Not less qualified, just different admission criteria.*</p>
<p>Did you think that I was disagreeing with you? I wasn’t. I agree that there are (right-brain) majors where talents and potential are not going to come thru by looking at test scores. </p>
<p>That’s one reason why I think looking at middle quartile ranges at very large schools (with lots of majors) does not tell the whole story. If the bottom 2 quartiles are largely kids who are majoring in subjects that don’t require high test scores, then it’s silly for potential STEM majors to be concerned about the quality of a particular school that has a lowish number for the 25th percentile…those kids won’t likely be in their classes. The kids in the STEM majors are going to mostly come from the top quartile and the rest from the second highest quartile.</p>
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<p>I think you’re onto something, JohnBlack. There’s a lot I don’t like about US News’ ratings methodology, but converting the ratings to rankings is even worse because it minimizes big differences in ratings between some schools that are close in rankings, and it exaggerates differences between schools in the rankings when ratings are bunched closely together. Without changing anything about how US News rates schools, here’s what you’d get by more sensibly clustering close-together US News ratings for the top 50 (or so) universities:</p>
<p>Band 1: Harvard 100, Princeton 100, Yale 98</p>
<p>Band 2: Columbia 94, Caltech 93, MIT 93, Stanford 93, Chicago 93, Penn 93, Duke 92, Dartmouth 91</p>
<p>Band 3: Northwestern 90, Johns Hopkins 89, WUSTL 88, Brown 87, Cornell 87</p>
<p>Band 4: Rice 84, Vanderbilt 84, Notre Dame 83, Emory 81</p>
<p>Band 5: UC Berkeley 79, Georgetown 78, Carnegie Mellon 77, USC 77, UCLA 76, UVA 76, Wake Forest 76, Michigan 75, Tufts 74, UNC Chapel Hill 74</p>
<p>Band 6: Boston College 70, Brandeis 70, William & Mary 69, NYU 69, U Rochester 68, Georgia Tech 67, UC San Diego 66</p>
<p>Band 7: Case Western 65, Lehigh 65, UC Davis 65, U Miami 65, UCSB 64, U Washington 64, Wisconsin 64, Penn State 63, UC Irvine 63, UIUC 63, Texas 63, Yeshiva 63, George Washington 62, RPI 62, Tulane 62</p>
<p>Notice, for example, that the ratings gap between #3 Yale and #4 Columbia is larger than the gap between #4 Columbia and #11 Dartmouth; but you’d never get that from the rankings. Similarly, the ratings gap between #38 Case Western and #50 George Washington, RPI and Tulane is very small, even though it looks like a big difference in the rankings. </p>
<p>Of course, we can quibble about where to draw these lines: Does Northwestern belong in Band 2 or Band 3, for example? But even that quibbling promises to be more informative than blindly following US News’ rankings, which can be very misleading.</p>
<p>Besides the close bunching of the top 5 publics, these observations also jump out:
- S is not as close to HYP in the US News ratings as many people would place it (and no, xiggi, it’s not because of PA; Stanford’s 4.9 PA score is actually propping it up).
- Among Catholic schools, Notre Dame stands well ahead of Georgetown (+5), which has an even bigger lead on Boston College (+8).
- Among UCs, UC San Diego is much closer to UC Davis, UC Santa Barbara, and UC Irvine than it is to UCLA or UC Berkeley.</p>
<p>
Right. Speaking of which:</p>
<p>Berkeley = 4.7</p>
<p>UCLA = 4.2</p>
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<p>Any particular reason why you felt compelled to add that comment? Do you *really *believe I do not understand the impact of the new PA indexes on Stanford’s total score? Or that I am incapable to identify (and question) the origins of the changes that created the five-horses tie and Columbia’s rise?</p>
<p>The PA is only one of the questionable elements of the USNews rankings. It happens to be the most visible … as the post above mine clearly indicates. No wonder UCB likes to write about JCLA.</p>
<p>^ Jeez, xiggi, it’s just a little attempt to inject some humor, but I see I’ve touched a raw nerve. Apologies. How about I just leave you out of it from here on out? You’re no fun to talk to.</p>
<p>Performing the same exercise as in post #188 for the top 30 or so LACs, I get:</p>
<p>Band 1: Williams 100, Amherst 98, Swarthmore 96</p>
<p>Band 2: Pomona 94, Middlebury 93, Bowdoin 92, Carleton 92, Wellesley 92, CMC 91, Haverford 90 </p>
<p>Band 3: Davidson 89, Washington & Lee 88, Wesleyan 88, Vassar 87, Hamilton 86, Harvey Mudd 85, Grinnell 84, Smith 84</p>
<p>Band 4: Bates 83, Colby 83, Colgate 83, Oberlin 82, Bryn Mawr 81, Macalester 81, Colorado College 80, U Richmond 80, Bucknell 79, Holy Cross 79, Mount Holyoke 79, Scripps 79</p>
<p>Line-drawing problems are harder here, though, because there are fewer ratings discontinuities. So arguably Pomona could be in Band 1, and either Haverford in Band 3 or Davidson in Band 2, etc. Still, IMO it’s helpful to see how close together in the US News ratings #21 Bates and #29 Scripps are, for example.</p>
<p>ok …</p>
<p>Does anyone knows or has the complete 24-schools ranking of the US News 2012?
I only have the first 10, since I didn’t purchase the college compass but, would someone be so kind to give me the other 14 schools in the ranking, please! 
Thanks.</p>
<p>1# University of Pennsylvania
2# University of Michigan- Ann Arbor
3# University of Texas- Austin
4# University of California- Berkeley
5# Indiana University- Bloomington
6# New York University
7# University of North Carolina- Chapel Hill
8# University of Virginia
9# University of Wisconsin- Madison
10# University of Southern California
11#-24# ???</p>
<p>I specially need to know in which place did Loyola Marymount University ranked for 2012…</p>
<p>Does anyone knows or has the complete 24-schools ranking of the US News 2012?
I only have the first 10, since I didn’t purchase the college compass but, would someone be so kind to give me the other 14 schools in the ranking, please! Thanks.</p>
<p>1# University of Pennsylvania
2# University of Michigan- Ann Arbor
3# University of Texas- Austin
4# University of California- Berkeley
5# Indiana University- Bloomington
6# New York University
7# University of North Carolina- Chapel Hill
8# University of Virginia
9# University of Wisconsin- Madison
10# University of Southern California
11#-24# ???</p>
<p>I specially need to know in which place did Loyola Marymount University ranked for 2012…</p>
<p>I don’t think LMU would be in that list…I think LMU might come under the regional list. But, I could be wrong…I’ll look it up…I have Compass.</p>
<p>edit to add… Yes, LMU is a regional, but it does get listed in the B-school undergrad list</p>
<h1>97 Best Undergraduate Business Programs</h1>
<h1>21 Accounting</h1>
<h1>22 Marketing</h1>
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<p>I’m just wondering how many times you’ve replicated this quote. Maybe 5K times?</p>
<p>It’s good to know that Cal has kept its ranking over UCLA by gaming the US News. The only UC campus besides SD to engage in such w/ spring admits. ;)</p>
<p>Really, though, there is a difference in spring and fall admits stats-wise, but Cal doesn’t do this to game the rankings. It’s more of an issue of finding enough beds for the frosh class, etc.</p>
<p>“It’s good to know that Cal has kept its ranking over UCLA by gaming the US News. The only UC campus besides SD to engage in such w/ spring admits.”</p>
<p>PA scores cannot be easily “gamed” like the other so called objective numbers at USNWR.</p>
<p>What’s the issue, Drax? ~ 2,000 academics just happen to think Berkeley’s academic program offerings are “distinguished”…while UCLA’s are “strong”.</p>
<p>Actually, the view that Berkeley is academically superior to any State-funded university in the USA is shared by students, academics, scholars and top employers world-wide.</p>
<p>I would say Michigan and UCLA are not far from Berkeley though. :)</p>
<p>Yess, Johns Hopkins stays at #13.</p>