<p>Hello everyone! I just finished 11th grade. I will be applying to colleges in the fall, and am very interested in applying to universities in the UK. My basic understanding is that UK universities look at test scores, not grades, and that extra curricular activities are not deemed important by admissions committees. Past this, however, I am a bit confused. </p>
<p>As some background, my AP scores are Biology (4), English Language (5), US History (5), Psychology (5), and Statistics (3). I have taken the SAT and received a 2190 (710 CR, 750 Math, 730 Writing). I plan to take the SAT again in the fall, and expect upwards of 2300. I took the subject test for USH and got 800, I plan to take biology and math 2 in fall. If it matters, I have a 3.97/4.29 GPA and I'm in the top 1% of my class. </p>
<p>Because my math and science AP scores were less than stellar, can I submit a math 2 and bio subject test and omit the AP scores? In other words, apply with 750+ scores in math 2, bio, and USH and then 5's in psych, USH, and English. I am fairly confident that I can get the last two high scores, as I have been studying and doing well on practice tests. Would that make me a competitive applicant?</p>
<p>I have many extra curricular activities, including research experience at Stanford and in Asia, president of red cross club, math tutor, teaching piano, working at a small biology company, science bowl team, leadership in community service at a hospital, etc. Are these even relevant?</p>
<p>I'm really not sure where to begin. I know that the minimum requirements for Oxford are 2100/3 5's on AP exams, but I'm not sure if I am a competitive applicant with the 4 and 3 that I received. If there is an old thread on this topic and someone could link it, or else give me advice here, that would be excellent. I suppose I am mainly looking for advice as to where I should apply, if there is some sort of ranking that I should be looking at, where on these rankings I should be applying, etc. </p>
<p>Thanks in advance! I apologize if these questions are annoying or repetitive.</p>
<p>I’m not an expert by any accounts, but I can give you an idea of what they’re looking for in terms of extracurriculars:
Basically anything relevant to the course you want to study, eg research experience, will be great. it shows them you are committed to the subject and know what it’s about, so you’ll keep it up at university
Generally things that show leadership, charity work etc aren’t relevant to admissions, as they only care how you’ll do in the specific department you’re applying for. They don’t care what you do outside of academics, as they aren’t admitting you for the good of the univeristy as a whole. This means sports generally aren’t a big deal as well.
I’m a bit confused about what subject you want to do, as you’re talking about entering science, maths, history and english scores, so I don’t know specifically which ECs are relevant. Only appropraite scores are counted, eg if you want to do chemistry they’ll look at chem, maths and maybe other sciences only.
Bear in mind that most of this information is centred round Oxbridge type schools, which i have the most experience/knowledge of</p>
<p>Oxford wants 3 AP tests with scores of 5, you have 3 AP tests with scores of 5.</p>
<p>You’ve met their requirements. Go for it. Nothing else will “cancel” these qualifications you have earned. Anything else you have will just be “extra”.</p>
<p>I think you will need to apply for a course (what we Yanks call a “major”) either in, or related to, the subjects that you got your "5"s in. So don’t apply for Biology or Maths, for example.</p>
<p>Once you have gotten your tests taken care of, worry about your application, with personal statement, and the interview. They are looking for someone who is committed to the subject they have chosen to study. This is very different from the U.S., because the Brits will NOT be looking for someone “well-rounded”. This is why extracurriculars are largely irrelevant.</p>
<p>Remember that there are many many colleges and universities in the UK, all of which are easier to get into than Oxford and Cambridge!!!</p>
<p>Here’s a thought, especially if you are planning to read history, go rent the movie based on Alan Bennett’s play “The History Boys”. It shows a group of young English men hoping to read History at Oxford and Cambridge, and preparing for their interviews.</p>
<p>Just to let you know that if you are going to do history, particularly at Oxbridge, it is considered a posh kids’ doss subject, and isn’t particularly employable. I’m sure there are dedicated people that do it as well, but it’s worth thinking about.</p>
<p>My extra curriculars are mainly in science, but I think I can spin them in a different light in my personal statement. I plan to explain that I originally got involved with science because I was extremely curious about the way the world works, but as I read more and more I realized that my true interests lie in the way the world works on a larger scale i.e. interactions between people and economies, rather than how it works on a molecular level. Hopefully a well written personal statement will be able toe explain this and then go on to explain everything that I find so fascinating about PPE. It’s nice that they aren’t too important because I don’t plan to read science or math. </p>
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<p>I used to think it was science, but as I’ve gotten into more advanced classes, I’ve realized that english and history are much more interesting to me. I think I was just previously bored with their low levels. I think that I would like to read PPE. Ideally, it would be economics but as I am not the best at math, I don’t think this is possible. I would love PPE, so I will most likely apply to that. Do you know how this major is seen by other students or what the career prospects are like? I will search for some data, but if you know of a source that would be excellent. </p>
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<p>Are English, history, and psychology related enough to PPE? I would think so, as they are the most related courses at my school, but it would be great to double check. </p>
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<p>Believe me, I know! And I know that many of them are excellent. However, as I plan to most likely return to the US, my parents and I agree that a UK degree is really only beneficial if it exceeds a school I can get into in the US. Therefore, if it is not Oxford or LSE (obviously Cambridge is also excellent but I can’t apply to it and Oxford in the same year), I’m not sure if it is a practical thing to do, as much as I would like to study in the UK. I will apply to more than the two, but it is unlikely that I would be allowed to attend if it was not one of them. Please don’t take me as a school snob, I’m really not, but in a cost benefit analysis I’m not sure that a degree from a mid tier UK school could confer the same advantages as a mid tier degree from a US school. Of course correct me if I’m wrong!</p>
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<p>So, are the tests/scores just a cut off or can more be better? I was under the impression that providing more than the minimum is usually required when applying for a school. Because math and biology are not related to PPE, I suppose they are useless. Well, math would be related to economics, right? So I suppose I could take math 2. Would another subject such as world history also be useful? I am interested in it and would certainly be willing to study for it if it would be useful. </p>
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<p>I’m not planning to read history, but I will certainly rent it. Thanks for the suggestion! I have also begun watching youtube tutorials, which I hope will help. The sample questions I have encountered for PPE sound extremely interesting. </p>
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<p>As much as I love history, I need a course that provides reasonable career prospects. I hope PPE can do that, but I will have to do more research. </p>
<p>A couple more questions: Do I need to take the TSE as an international student? I couldn’t find that online. I’m not sure if the SAT could substitute or if I need to take the same tests as UK students. And then, again, career prospects/general view of PPE if either of you (or anyone else) knows would be awesome.</p>
<p>History at Oxford isn’t particularly employable?</p>
<p>Yes its true it has a reputation for being a doss subject and rightly so but no way in the world is it unemployable. Any degree from Oxford (including Theology, Music etc) can land you high-paying jobs in the City or respectable jobs in the Civil Service just because its an Oxbridge degree. That’s a well known fact and I am not hyping up the university here. Employers value the tutorial system and the ability to go study deep into one’s course and the propensity to work long hours be it an essay crisis or revising for your finals. </p>
<p>OP, PPE is extremely prestigious and a very employable degree as well. I would however highly recommend you take an AP in Calculus AB or BC (the latter preferably). The Economics component requires a good understanding of calculus even if you do intend to drop Econ after your first year. The 3 in Stats would be quite detrimental to your application otherwise. Apart from that, the rest of your profile seems fine. PPE has no set of recommended subjects and spinning it from your initial interest in Science works well. But as I said, Maths is one thing they do look for although it isn’t spelt out so explicitly on the admissions site.</p>
<p>Sorry for my lack of understanding. Thanks for the input. I may lean toward straight history or philosophy because of my general failure at math, but I will have to look more into it. </p>
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<p>The 3 is quite horrible, I know. I had an awful time in that class. I am planning to take Calculus AB at school next year, and as it is a prereq for BC, I can’t get into the BC class. I could, however, self study for the BC exam and could probably earn a 5 if I work hard enough. However, is this too late for Oxford?</p>
<p>I am also planning to take the math 2 subject test, and should be scoring 800, as it has a nice curve and I understand the math well. I have been doing well on practice tests.</p>
<p>What the hell is wrong with people on this forum? History, a doss subject? Is this a joke… history is HARD, and at Oxbridge it’s VERY HARD. It has its fair share of privately educated students but so does every subject at Oxbridge. It is certainly not a doss subject and it is extremely employable.</p>
<p>It is quite clear to me that SuperIBkid and UKgirl23 have zero experience of history and Oxbridge so I would ignore anything they say on the matter.</p>
<p>Can you read over my comment - I clearly said History is a very employable degree. </p>
<p>It is definitely very hard as are most degrees at Oxford. But everyone around the university knows that on average History students do less work than say Chemists or Medics. Ha bro, zero experience at Oxbridge…I have enough friends at my college doing History who would testify that they can get away with 20-30 hours of work a week. Fun fact: History is also known to have the most promiscuous students in the UK…</p>
<p>I can’t comment on the actual difficulty of History, but here it has the reputation of being a posh kid’s doss subject. Also, it is generally accepeted as not being the most employable, but you’re both right about Oxbridge, other places may not be so good though.
Both my parents went to Oxford and I’ve been talking to a number of people from universities and my school careers recently about History, as I haven’t been able to decide between it and medicine. But no, I don’t have that much first hand experience of either, but I was just giving my impression on the subject.</p>
<p>I’m sorry to have to continue this off-topic argument, but I jest needed to clear up some stuff.</p>
<p>@alwaysleah there are a number of other mixed subjects you could take without the maths skills needed for economics, have a look at some university sites.</p>
<p>@SuperIBkid if you’re just another one of those ‘science is harder than arts’ people, you may as well exit this thread right now and go back to TSR. I have zero interest in having that ridiculous debate again.</p>
<p>I do not care how many hours your friends can get away with, it is completely irrelevant. If they manage to get a good 2:1 without having worked hard it (might) be an argument worth perusing, but that is unlikely to happen.</p>
<p>I don’t want to prolong this argument since you obviously either have a) a biased view or b) just not willing to swallow your pride. </p>
<p>Just to be clear I am hardly the ‘science is harder than arts’ type of guy. I do E&M and I am ready to admit we have one of the lighter workloads in the university along with HISTORY, English and Biology (amongst others - Theology as well arguably). I know for a fact that the Lawyers have to put tons of work more in order to get a 2.1 compared to us or Historians. Of course historians work hard, anyone who comes out of Oxbridge with a decent 2.1 has had to work hard at some point in their degree. The line of argument is that they work comparatively less versus some other subjects. And I am ready to qualify that getting a first in History is going to require significantly longer hours of work a week but heck that’s the same with any other subject.</p>
<p>Do UK colleges accept a mixture of SAT subject tests and AP scores? My daughter will be taking AP Calculus BC next year but she did take the Math SAT subject test and scored high enough for UK schools.</p>
<p>I don’t know the specific answer to your question, Dr. Google, but I am pretty sure that you won’t be able to “duplicate” subjects, and will need a total of at least three different subjects.</p>
<p>Your daughter will need at least one more AP test or SAT subject, I’m pretty sure. I’m not sure whether the unis will consider “AP Calculus” and “SAT Math” to be distinct subjects, so she may need two.</p>
<p>OP have you considered History and Politics? I have a friend who wanted to do PPE but hated maths so chose that degree instead. He loves it. </p>
<p>Also DO NOT watch the History Boys as a guide for applications - it’s full of outdated superstition. It is quite a fun film to watch though as long as you take everything with a pinch of salt - the application process has evolved. </p>
<p>Bear in mind that your grades are only the starting point - many people exceed the grade requirements quite spectacularly and yet do not get offers because of their scores for admissions tests (Like the History apititude test or the TSA for PPE) or at interview, which is a crucial factor (it’s not just a nice chat with an alumnus, it’s an academic grilling conducted by the professor who will probably be teaching you). </p>
<p>You meet the grade requirements - make your mind up about what degree suits you the best then start reading around the subject.</p>