USC (Presidential Scholarship) vs Temple University (Honors w/Provost Scholarship) for Pre-med

College Search & Selection
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Hello,

I have been admitted into USC and Temple Honors under Neuroscience.
I am hardworking student, a National Merit Scholar, and have 2 years of experience with research (1 publication).

I have been admitted into University of Southern California with half-tuition scholarship (Presidential Scholarship). I am also considering Temple University Honors with 23500 in scholarship. USC will be about 53000k a year for four years with scholarship and Temple will be around 26k a year with scholarship. I live in Delaware and there are no public medical schools. Through my research, it seems that prestige does matter if you are applying to a ‘top medical school’ or private medical schools, which I strive to do since there are no public medical schools that favor me. I do not want my options in the future to be inhibited; however, I am having trouble justifying moving across the country because everyone is telling me ‘where I go to premed doesn’t matter.’ Ideally I wouldn’t have to move across the country for college, but if I have to I will. I have family in LA as well, so I will have a support system (albeit not as significant) there as well. I have heard great things about Temple honors and Philly has a lot of healthcare opportunity as well. Furthermore, USC also has a progressive degree program where you can get a masters and an undergrad degree in 4 years !!! A benefit of temple is that I have 8 AP Classes worth of credit that I can utilize there. Not for med school prerequisites, but I can get out of plenty of GE and history/ English classes. I could definitely graduate in three at temple.

Price isn’t the end all be all consideration for me in this decision; however, it is a factor. The major consideration is below.

Will going to Temple disadvantage me when applying to ‘prestigious’ medical schools down the line vs going to USC. Is there a major difference between both schools if I want to attend medical school. Which one should I choose? Is USC worth the price difference ?

I also gained admission into UMich and similar schools, but they didn’t give scholarship, so I am not considering them.

I appreciate the time.

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I’m not sure this is totally true. Most medical schools really don’t care where you got your undergrad degree. Some do
but most don’t.

There are many other things that weigh in on a medical school application.

Maybe @WayOutWestMom can comment.

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For the very very top (e.g Stamford) there may be some bias, but a lot of their class have masters or PhDs. Neither USC or Temple are going to have a prestige bump. It also doesn’t matter that there is no med school in your home state. That would be a consideration when applying to med school, not undergrad.

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USC Keck School of Medicine had a student body that was comprised of 19% from USC undergrad. Do you think thats a significant enough factor to commit to the school over Temple? Is there one school that I should go to over the other ?

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Just an observation from
What I’ve read on here but many people have concerns with the safety around Temple. The President just resigned in part due to this. .

No doubt it’s a fine school but there are concerns from others so you should investigate.

Since price is a factor - you may know this already but If you are looking to go free - Tulsa is still taking apps I believe (full ride) and Bama would be near free.

If you decide Temple is not right but USC is too much. I would definitely get comfortable with the Temple area given the many comments on here.

Congrats on your accomplishments. Best of luck.

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That is about 10% ish of the total number of students that are applying to med school from USC. You are paying a huge premium for a maybe slight bump. That population is more likely that students like to stay where they are at even if they could go other places. I wouldn’t be surprised if every med school has the largest population from their own school.

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While this is true, Delaware has an agreement(DIMER) with two Philadelphia area med schools (PCOM, Kimmel/Jefferson) which reserves seats specifically for Delaware residents.

There is a small prestige bump for Ivy grads at Ivy med schools, but it is very minor bump when considered in the context of your total application portfolio.

Furthermore, USC also has a progressive degree program where you can get a masters and an undergrad degree in 4 years !!!

What purpose would getting a Master’s serve? A grad degree won 't help you with gaining a med school admission (adcomms don’t considered advanced degrees when making admission decisions) and it could hurt you unless you perform at/near the top of your program. Also getting a research-oriented grad degree signals to med schools you’re more interested in the research lab than you are in being a physician.

Will going to disadvantage me when applying to ‘prestigious’ medical schools down the line vs going to USC.

Maybe a very small amount. Private, top ranked med schools do take into consideration where you went to undergrad, but it’s not a major consideration when making admission decisions. (See p. 15 of this document to see what adcomms say is important.) USC is a major name school, but it’s not Harvard or Stanford so its prestige probably isn’t worth the price difference.

Is there a major difference between both schools if I want to attend medical school.

I don’t think so. Where you attend undergrad is much, much less important than what you do while you are in school there. Both colleges will offer you the opportunities you need to make yourself a strong candidate for med school. It’s up to you to find these opportunities and take advantage of them.

Which one should I choose? Is USC worth the price difference ?

This is decision only you and your family can make. But if you are set on med school and attending USC will require you or your family to take on major debt
then no.

Let me tell my personal experience–one daughter attended a state university that’s ranked much lower than Temple; the other attended a private research U ranked in the mid 30s. Both had the opportunities to get involved in research, to study under some really good (and some not so good) professors, to be selected to be TAs/SIs, to work as paid peer tutors, to get excellent personal mentoring from their professors, to get involved in campus activities they enjoyed and gain leadership positions. Both applied to med school and both got multiple acceptances. Both choose our in-state (very inexpensive) state med school. Both are now physicians in their specialty of choice. One did her residency at Yale; the other did her residency at the #2 ranked program in her specialty in the West. One is now an attending in private practice; the other is finishing fellowship and will start her “dream job” in September.

The moral: if you have the drive, ambition, smarts and determination, you can get wherever you want via many different routes.

Now, my advice: I always tell pre-med (including my own kids) to take pre-med out of your decision process. Why? Because research shows that only 16% of individuals who start with the pre-med pre-reqs as freshmen actually persist all the way through to finish those pre-reqs and apply to med school. (Pre-meds drop off the pre-med path for many reasons, and mostly not because they can’t manage the coursework. Most find other careers they like better than medicine along the way. Or they decide they don’t want spend the next 11-18 years with their lives on hold while their peers get married, buy houses, build careers.) Of those 16% that do persist and apply to med school , less than 40% get any acceptances. So the odds say that you’re not going to end up in medicine.

Choose a school that offers you the best combination of:

  1. opportunities --including the opportunities to explore careers other than medicine
  2. fit–because happier student do better academically. also college is 4 years of your life you will never get back so take the opportunity to enjoy those 4 years.
  3. cost-- because med school is horrendously expensive and you will be taking out $400K+ in loans to pay for it. Potential pre-meds are ALWAYS advised to minimize undergrad debt.
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No, CA is the #1 producer of pre-meds in the entire country. Last year over 360 students from USC applied to med school.* That’s huge number! So it’s not terribly surprising that 30 or so of them ended up at Keck since CA students try hard to stay in-state. I bet there are tons from UCB, UCLA and UCSD too.

*USC uses a health professions committee letter to pre-screen med school applicants. Only those students the HP committee thinks have a very strong chance of gaining a med school admission are offered letters of recommendation. Without the HP committee’s endorsement, a student either cannot apply or will be applying with HUGE red flag on their application.

I have no preference either way–this is your decision.

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Temple offers an Early Assurance Admission Program to Katz School of Medicine to undergrads attending Temple university

Early Assurance

LKSOM offers several early assurance programs that allow students to be considered for acceptance in their junior year of college. The St. Luke’s Regional Campus has an Early Assurance program for students from DeSales University, Lehigh University, Moravian College, and Muhlenberg College. Students enrolled at Temple University or Washington & Jefferson College can also be considered for early assurance during their junior year of college and are able to complete the MD program at the North Philadelphia or St. Luke’s campus. To be considered for the early assurance program, students must have at least a 3.6 overall and science GPA at the end of their junior year of college, a strong commitment to service as demonstrated by extensive community and healthcare experiences and demonstrated leadership potential.

Students interested in the Early Assurance Program are nominated by the undergraduate pre-medical advisor during their junior year. Those selected to interview will participate in an interview day and be presented to the Admissions Committee for conditional acceptance. Students offered a conditional acceptance need to sit for the MCAT exam by the end of May.

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Anecdote: I recently spoke to a casual friend about her son’s experience at Temple. Background - He is a current sophomore, premed, on a full tuition scholarship, studious and somewhat introverted (not a party guy). They are from the Philly suburbs. Mom is a bit of a helicopter mom. :grinning: Parents are active in the Temple Parents Council.

The Good: They have been very pleased with the academics, opportunities for research, volunteering/shadowing and to TA. The Honors dorm is nice and conveniently located on campus. The area around campus is well lit. The university is taking safety concerns seriously and hiring more security guards, etc.

The Bad: The concerns about violence are real. They ruled it out for their daughter for that reason. They had the ability to buy a rental property on 13th a few blocks from the main part of campus in what they consider a safer residential area because they wanted guaranteed safe housing for their son after freshman year
 the area across Broad, where most upperclass housing/apts are located can be “very sketchy” even during the day. Student retention has suffered due to safety concerns (hence the switch in leadership).

Overall they/son are satisfied with the decision to attend Temple, because of the scholarship (since med school $$$$ is in the future) and the nearby opportunities for premeds. The son was already familiar with Philly and being aware of surroundings in any city
 it could be a more difficult transition for kids from different backgrounds.

The standard advice for premeds is to save money on undergrad since med school is so expensive, but remember that you need to live there for 4 years. That is a personal decision for you and your family. TLDR: Temple can be a good school for premeds if you go in fully informed and eyes wide open.

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Okay, thank you for your response.

To follow up on your comment, would going to USC give me a higher likelihood of getting into the very very top med schools (UPENN etc.) by name alone. I understand that whats most important is how you use your time during college, but it seems that USC med school applicants are much more successful than temple applicants. Is this because the students at USC are smarter, so they will probably end up at higher ranked med schools?

TLDR: Would Going to temple over USC disadvantage me when applying to top 20 med schools? Can I get into a top 20 med school from Temple? If so, is it harder as an applicant from a mid-tier state school like Temple.

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Thank you for you’re insight

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USC also has specific labs that I would want to work in (meditation and neuroscience research). They have a center for mindfulness science and a brain and creativity institute

After looking through the neuroscience research at temple and Temple med, it seems that they do not have that; however, I can find plenty of neuro research at temple, Jefferson, and UPenn.

The pros of USC for me are:
smarter student body
the center for mindfulness science
the brain and creativity institute
seeing a lot of premed success (plenty of premeds getting into top med schools every year)
Better area/opportunity to live in LA

Are these factors large enough to justify the cost difference between the two schools ( ~53k vs ~27k)

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I would say going to USC over Temple would not benefit you.

I would believe USC students do better than Temple students getting in. You said it and I’ll believe it.

If you look at Harvard Law, as an example, 174 schools are represented. So yes there are Harvard and Yale grads but also Temple, U of Kentucky, Ole Miss, etc.

Would there be similar amounts ?

No - because if you were accomplished enough to get into Yale to begin with, you’re likely also the cream of the crop headed into Law School. In other words, while most every Yale student can get into Temple the reverse is unlikely to be true.

So pivot to medical school - the concept holds true. There are kids at Arkansas or Arizona that can and will get into a top med school.

But there are fewer top kids there than at a Harvard or USC. It doesn’t mean their chance is any less assuming credentials are equal. It’s just there are fewer kids at that level at that school to begin with.

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What is your goal with an MD? If you want to be a “normal” practicing physician, it really doesn’t matter what med school that you attend. If you want to be an academic researcher, then having the right med school pedigree would be more important. I am one that thinks that you need to heavily discount any future plans when picking an undergraduate school. It is very likely that your plans will change. Yes, I know that you think that you are different and you will 100% go to med school.

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No, it’s the preparation. It’s the MCAT, the clinical experiences, the drive.
My daughter, who attended UC Davis, got into USC’s Keck. It was her preparation and clinical experiences that got her in. She didn’t go there but attended UCSF.

We paid $300K for med school. That’s from the Bank of Mom and Dad, savings from undergrad and her work savings.

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The pros of USC for me are:
smarter student body

Which mean you will have stronger academic competition for those A grades you need to create a strong application portfolio to med school.

the center for mindfulness science
the brain and creativity institute

seeing a lot of premed success (plenty of premeds getting into top med schools every year)

USC attracts far more pre-meds than Temple does. USC produces 360+ med school applicants/year while Temple has around 160. At USC you will be more a number than at Temple.

Also “top” med school is pretty meaningless. In the US, medical education is flat–meaning that all US med school (MD and DO) have a standardized curriculum and all US med student take the same qualifying exams during med school (USMLE exams) that are used to help place students into residency. And I’ll let you in on a secret–where you do your residency is far, far more important than where you go to med school. Residency faculty are the ones who will help you get your first job–whether it’s in private practice or academic medicine.

Better area/opportunity to live in LA

But realize that as an OOSer your chances of enrolling in a CA med school are very low. CA is the largest single producer of med students in the US, most of whom attend OOS med schools.

I will also mention that the area around th USC campus can be pretty sketchy, esp at night, though the campus itself is safe enough. You will need to exercise your “city smarts” near USC/in LA just as you would in any large urban area.

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Short answer
.NO.

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