<p>Attending a junior college is not incompatible with seeking prestige at a later time. The transfer model adopted by a RU such as Cal ensures that. The lines for excellence and dedication to teaching are becoming increasingly blurred. The actual physical delivery of the educational contents might not be as relevant as it used to be. </p>
<p>Now we have high schools pretending to deliver college classes and universities having to increase the number of remedial classes; add a rapid development of online classes and a number of added initiatives, and you have quite a hodgepodge. In the end, however, all points to the need for the best educators at every step in the chain.</p>
This is exactly why people stereotype USC students/fans/affiliates…sucks because a huge number of them are brilliant, but more of them are like this ^</p>
<p>Sorry you don’t like reality, it is in fact reality that “USC administers and teaches exactly like UCLA” like vinceh pointed out, it “is standard operating procedure at USC, UCLA, Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, Michigan and is in fact the way of doing things at just about every school with the word “University” in its name.” Why can’t more USC students/alums actually be normal people like vinceh? I have absolutely nothing against USC, which no USC affiliate will believe except for possibly vinceh because he seems very down to earth, I just wish they wouldn’t be in their illusory world - in this particular thread, USC does everything actually the same as any other elite “University” in the states. Is that so disgusting for Trojans to admit that their school operates the same way as <em>gasp</em> publics like Cal <em>shudders</em> and even Harvard? My god…</p>
<p>USC may have smaller freshman level classes than some of the big publics. But even these smaller freshman level classes are still large (e.g. freshman general chemistry in 200 student lectures instead of 500 student lectures), so that would still not be the small intimate classes that one may find at a LAC or CC.</p>
<p>Why do you write as if this were unusual or contradictory? Why would it be unusual for one high school student to take calculus in high school, then attend a university and be placed in a more advanced math course and do well in that, while another student in the same high school goes on to the same university but needs to take remedial math courses? Or even for the same student to be advanced in math but remedial in English, or vice-versa?</p>
<p>At any school transition (high school -> college, middle school -> high school, elementary school -> middle school), there will be some advanced students at the top grade of the lower school ready for course work at the bottom grade of the higher school in some subjects, and other students at the bottom grade of the higher school who need remedial work for things that they should or could have learned in the lower school. Some students may be advanced in some subjects but behind in others, so eliminating social promotion and having stricter graduation requirements for each transition would not be a complete solution.</p>
<p>My D is a student at USC, and S graduated from USC. She says that nearly all her courses are taught by profs. She has been taught by a few adjuncts. TAs run discussion sections and serve the profs. She is in cinema. I believe S had similar experiences. He was in engineering.</p>
<p>She isn’t sure about whether there are TAs used more often in other fields, like perhaps liberal arts, math or science, particularly in lower level courses. The courses she took, she’s quite sure were taught by profs.</p>
<p>^^
I double checked AGAIN with DS , who was at USC for 5 years , and he reconfirmed that all his classes were taught by profs. TA’s led discussion groups and labs . Period. Sorry if that is just impossible for some people, especially those who did or do notgo to USC, to believe. …
And that is the last I’m going to say on this subject…</p>
<p>^^
I double checked AGAIN with MYSELF , who was at Berkeley for 3 years , and I reconfirm that all my classes were taught by profs. TA’s led discussion groups and labs . Period. Sorry if that is just impossible for some people, especially those who did or do not go to Berkeley, to believe. …</p>
<p>That’s usually how it works at research universities. </p>
<p>And that is the last I’m going to say on this subject…</p>
<p>OP-
Specific to USC: D is a rising soph at USC and had several of the largest science classes last year. About 200 in the class with small (less than 20) in the labs. Classes taught by profs and labs by TAs. TAs graded lab work and probably class tests. However, in her GE classes were much smaller-- 20-30 people and no TAs involved. Profs both graded ALL work themselves in these small classes. D felt comfortable visiting both prof and TA office hours. </p>
<p>General about U TAs-- At any U with graduate students you should expect TAs to be involved in the education process, either by grading, teaching discussions or lab sections, or the occasional lecture. That is how they are subsidizing their education. At many Us grad students do a considerable amount of the summer teaching as lecturers. They all have to start somewhere and the summer is usually the place. </p>
<p>You will need to decide for yourself if you need a prof involved in all educational experiences or if a TA would be fine for some things.</p>
<p>Cross your heart? Can we count on that? I am pretty sure I can make you break that solemn promise in the next future. All that is needed is another discussion about TAs to complement the hundreds that have appeared here. Or start a discussion Cal TAs really $%^& – which would be new territory! </p>
<p>And, fwiw, why does it appear to be so hard to notice that there are no contradiction in “I reconfirm that all my classes were taught by profs. TA’s led discussion groups and labs . Period.” and “The reality is that TAs will play a role in your education, and one that goes well beyond the “TA only lead sections” bull. Expect the TA to participate if not be responsible for the grading, and perhaps even design of the curriculum of a class.”</p>
<p>Perhaps, I should outsmart the “other side” by starting a thread about the prominence of TAs at Stanford, and let the non-furd-fans jump on the opportunity with filed claws and fangs. </p>
<p>Anyone who spent time at a research university knows what the responsibilities of TAs are, and in many cases, know exactly what the background of those TAs is. And to keep in line with the above paragraph, if anyone wants to pretend that all TAs who teach (oops, lead a section) at Stanford are PhD candidates, that would be quite a fib. The same for pretending that all TAs are … in graduate school, as that would also be untrue. And, then we could go on about who was responsible for grading papers and assignments. Would it surprise anyone that the person who is grading your papers and test might be your … own roommate and in the same graduating class? And YES, that is at Stanford and in a non-stem class! </p>
<p>The long of the short of all of this is that TAs will play a role in the education of undergraduates at a research university. In some cases, it can be very beneficial, and something the students actually might prefer over the lectures. However, in other cases, a TA can destroy a class by making changes to the advertised curriculum. And, if one truly values attending the class of a superb lecturer, not much can be done except put up with the horrible TA and hope the evaluation will save upcoming classes from the aggravation. </p>
<p>And that is NOT the last I’m going to say on this subject!</p>
<p>REALLY??!?! Source? Or better yet, just let me know how I can get that kind of sweet job at my own college!! That statement seems hard to believe, but I won’t call BS on something I haven’t researched before. Please do go on.</p>
<p>Well, you better believe it! My younger sister could have chosen two classes in the same semester; one with her own roommate, and one with mine. However, the second one was a PhD student at GSB. </p>
<p>I am not so sure why it sounds surprising to hear that some undergraduates do grade the papers of other UGs. Or is it surprising that it happens at the Farm, of all places?</p>
<p>PS I’d be happy to share the exact details with my friend Phantamasgoric who can verify my “statement.”</p>
<p>^ Haha he definitely did, Beyphy, if it was a serious comment. I’ve had my fair share of beyond awful TAs grading essays to the point that I complained to the professor and the professor actually changed my grade and admitted he didn’t understand why the TA thought my reasoning was faulty. And those were graduate students. Can’t possibly imagine if the undergrad comment is true how messed up that would actually be.</p>
<p>xiggi, that’s crazy, I don’t think that can happen at UCLA to the best that I know. Maybe it’s because we have bad enough TAs already. lol</p>
<p>In the 70s, I led a discussion section and graded papers when I was a sophomore in college (and had just completed taking that course), but not at Stanford. I thought it was a bit awkward that most of the kids in the course were older than I was, but only did it for one term & didn’t get paid anything, only 3 credits or something for being a TA. It was a non-STEM field.</p>
<p>Never encountered an actual undergraduate TA (running the discussions or scheduled labs, or grading major projects or tests), but it was common knowledge that plenty of undergraduates were hired to grade homework assignments and be computer lab assistants during unscheduled open computer lab time.</p>
<p>Since the discussion has died, perhaps it is an opportune time to reframe the discussion from who is teaching to the methods used, effectiveness and low level of priority for teaching undergraduates. Rather than become the focus of anticipated derision by some, below are the arguments framed by primary sources based on their research:</p>