Used 401K in 2009, EFC is 60,000??

<p>alememon–I totally agree with you!!</p>

<p>alamemom…</p>

<p>I wasn’t suggesting that they would/should qualify for tax-payer aid. With a high family income, clearly they would not qualify. Did somebody suggest that they would/should qualify for tax-payer aid???</p>

<p>If CUA wants to give them special consideration (as some Catholic U’s do), CUA has the right to do so with its institutional funds. No taxpayer funds would be an issue, so it’s none of our business.</p>

<p>Another thing to keep in mind… this family is paying for its own kids’ K-12 education at a huge savings to the taxpayer. I’m not saying that that should mean that they should get taxpayer money for college (because they obviously don’t qualify). But, remember, none of us are paying for these kids K-12 education, yet **they **are paying for other people’s kids’ public K-12 education. </p>

<p>My point still stands…the fact that the parents won’t be paying for the OP’s HS tuition next year, does not mean that that amount is available to be set aside for college…especially when the parents had to withdraw from 401k to pay for high school tuition this year.</p>

<p>

The OP has been attending a private high school, and his siblings in private school as well, for 12 years leading up to now, so it seems they have managed to set a sizeable sum aside each year for some time. </p>

<p>

I agree completely, which is why I specified FEDERAL financial aid in my response.</p>

<p>The OP’s in-state option’s entire cost of attendance is the same as the tuition-only cost of his high school. That means it would cost his family LESS to send him to college there because his food would be included.

If indeed - as you say - the family will suddenly not have the $15,000 (while still somehow managing the other $30,000/year for the remaining kids in high school and elementary school) they have managed all these years, then my suggestion of two years in a community college is even more valid.</p>

<p>That’s the thing…they haven’t been paying $45k per year for “all these years.” This may have been the first or second year that they’ve had 2 in high school - which would be 15k more than they’re used to (and this year was impossible for them, hence the 401k withdrawal.). </p>

<p>Prior to the OP going to high school, the family’s tuition was probably pretty reasonable…probably about $10-15k for all in school. </p>

<p>I guess because I live in this world of kids in Catholic schools, I’ve seen how these large families are financially fine with tuition for many years until the 2nd child hits high school. Then, all of the sudden they are paying costly high school tuition along with elementary tuition (which is much less and may offer multiple child discounts). These families haven’t spent years paying $30-45k per year in tuition. That is why they won’t have an extra $15k next year for college. </p>

<p>I think the OP has only a few options. Take the scholarship offer, take a Stafford, and see if his parents and a summer job can make up the rest. Or, go to a CC. Or, see if CUA will make a consideration.</p>

<p>The key:</p>

<p>This family is choosing to spend $45,000/year on private elementary and high school tuition. They could choose not to.</p>

<p>Financial aid is meant for needy families. Needy families do not have a household income equal to the amount this family is spending for private school tuition each year.</p>

<p>The consequence for the OP is that his college options are limited by his family’s priorities.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>alamemom – Need based financial aid is meant for needy families. Merit based financial aid is available for anyone regardless of their income. It sounded to me like the OP had at least a couple of offers for financial aid that were merit based, so good. I don’t think he’ll qualify for need-based assistance at any point.</p>

<p>I think the problem was that this student had no idea what his family was earning prior to the EFC process.</p>

<p>In his earlier post he wrote: “considering that my parents are always talking about how we will soon be “living in a van down by the river.”” It sounds like he was rather naive about family finances, which many high schoolers are. He probably had never “done the math” and realized that if his parents were paying XX for tuition each year, then they probably have a highish income. </p>

<p>That said, I know families that don’t have highish incomes, but they are extremely frugal so that they can pay for private school tuition. </p>

<p>I think he and everyone understands that he won’t qualify for tax-payer financial aid. I don’t think that point needs to be reiterated.</p>

<p>Yes, it is a choice to send the kids to private schools. You may not agree with that choice and that’s fine. The OP won’t be getting any taxpayer aid, so no worries there. :)</p>

<p>

mom2collegekids, at no point did I say that I did not agree with their choice. As I said, they are free do do as they choose. You make endless, often incorrect, assumptions in your posts. For example, you have no idea whether my children attend or attended private school.</p>

<p>Pea, thank you and yes, I am aware of merit aid and how it works - that is how my own child is attending her university. As I mentioned in my post #20, this is in response to mom2collegekid’s post #19 - not in response to the OP, who seems a fine fellow - and her following posts, filled with her assumptions about the OP and his family. I am also aware that with an income of “$150,000 plus bonus,” an EFC of $60,000, and a 401k large enough to make large withdrawals, this family will not (and of course should not) qualify for need-based aid.</p>

<p>*You make endless, often incorrect, assumptions in your posts. For example, you have no idea whether my children attend or attended private school.
*</p>

<p>I didn’t assume that your kids are in or were in public schools or private schools. I also didn’t state that you disagree with this family’s choice. I said, "You **may **not agree with that choice and that’s fine. " The word “may” is not a definite word…it expresses a possibility. If I were assuming, I would have said something like, “you obviously don’t agree…” That would be assuming. :)</p>

<p>I do not understand why you keep mentioning need-based (tax-payer supplied) aid. No one thinks he should get any.</p>

<p>

Catholic school tuition is subsidized by the parish and/or diocese, so those of us who drop an envelope in the basket each week ARE helping to pay. But I’m guessing with that income and family size, they’re paying a hefty chunk of property tax to their local school board.</p>

<p>^^^</p>

<p>I was referring to tax-payers…who are forced to subsidize public schools. You may have missed my earlier quote: *this family is paying for its own kids’ K-12 education at a huge savings to the taxpayer. *</p>

<p>That said, if this kid’s high school tuition is $15k per year, I would guess that it’s a private Catholic (like Jesuit) and not diocesan (therefore not supported by basket envelopes). If it is diocesan, it’s not likely getting much subsidy at that price. My kids’ diocesan high school cost a lot less than that (less than $8k/yr) and got zero dollars from the diocese. My nephews’ private Catholic (Servants of Mary) costs $12k. The elementary tuition he mentioned is high, too, at $5k each… That may be parish, but not well subsidized at that price. Frankly, many parishes aren’t subsidizing their schools that much anymore… They’ll pay for utilities & repair, but that’s because they use the buildings, too.</p>

<p>But…as I said, my point was that this family is not costing the taxpayer any money for k-12 education…a savings of over $500,000.00</p>

<p>So I should stay out of this, because in Canada (where I’m originally from, but transplanted for 7 years now) we have the unusual situation where both the “public” system and the “catholic” school system are each funded by the taxpayer (and those with school aged children dedicate same to the system of their choice…). At one point, I actually split my taxes between the two, as I had my son in one system, and a relative under my care in another. So I appreciate wholly the benefits of the Catholic education system and the community spirit of the schools I experienced directly.</p>

<p>That said, while I agree that the family in question is in a way “saving” taxpayers over $500,000, the end effect of not participating in the public school system is that it seems to weaken the system and create – at least in the city in which I live – issues around economy of scale, diseconomy of scale, sub-optimal delivery sizes etc. for school districts. In our case, the “urban” center student population has been “gutted” by 27 private schools that form a ring around the city. In this specific case, those privates do not produce particularly superior results statistically. So the city district at a time of dwindling funding loses the per cap funding for the 9,000 district students attending elsewhere, yet bears the most substantial burden for special needs education and social service delivery (because the charter schools do not appear to be required to meet such needs…they have the option to simply dismiss the child they cannot support.) </p>

<p>So it could be argued that instead of saving taxpayers $500,000, it is also “possible” that the family could be to some degree “wasting” or perhaps the better word is “duplicating” the tax aspect of $500,000, since buildings and chairs in the public system sit empty, but the population of the community is provided for because it is mandated to be. Don’t get me wrong – I would and have given my child the best education available. But I do wish to point out that private schools – at least the way I’ve seen it play out – don’t seem to actually “save” the public system money, at least on a dollar-to-dollar basis. I would much rather see an integrated system in terms of at least the PHYSICAL component – eg. sharing space, resources, buying power, collective bargaining et al regionally among the publics and the privates rather than to see “competing” schools attempting to “attract students” to fill half empty and completely duplicated buildings.</p>

<p>Just a riff. Thanks for indulging me, and good luck to the OP.
Cheers,
K</p>

<p>Uh no… the Catholic schools in the US save the American taxpayers billions of dollars. </p>

<p>The existence of Catholic schools in America do NOT cause empty seats or half empty buildings. And, thank goodness that the only option is not gov’t schools. </p>

<p>If your argument were true, then there shouldn’t be any private colleges, either.</p>

<p>I meant that’s what I’m witnessing here, in the USA, in our own school district. These suspicions seem to be corroborated by <em>some</em> local administrators, civic leaders, and state economists. What I am saying is that there is a body of folks out there who would not accept at face value that in general, a “private” school actually “saves” the public system the value of the private dollar for dollar.</p>

<p>Furthermore, the average taxpayer expenditure on education is apx. $7500 - $9500 in most districts (there are some exceptions.) So, tuition of $15,000 provides for at least 30% more resources in terms of infrastructure in a private setting. Were the same resources allocated to public schools, you might not be as unenthusiastic as you sound about the offerings of the public school system.</p>

<p>I’m sure that many civic leaders and union hacks would love to have all the Catholic school heads in their schools. However, their arguments are often self-serving and ring hollow. </p>

<p>Thank goodness for competition. If all of our universities were public, the American college system wouldn’t be as strong as it is.</p>

<p>So, tuition of $15,000 provides for at least 30% more resources in terms of infrastructure in a private setting. Were the same resources allocated to public schools,</p>

<p>The public schools wouldn’t get that tuition money. The parents already paid their property taxes. It is their choice to spend that money on private…they could spend it for a summer in Europe. BTW…the gov’t system of K-12 education wastes more money than probably any institution.</p>

<p>Without debating the school or aid thing, I have a few observations. First, 6angels never replied to M2CK’s question of how much his parent’s will contribute each year for college. It sound as if they aren’t planning to contribute, and definitely sounds like they may not have saved for this expense, but that may not be correct. Also, I noticed that he only specified what his Dad makes a year. It sounds as if Mom may not be working and, with all but one child in school now, that may be an alternate source of income. In my area, it is more popular for SAHM’s to home-school their kids than to send them to Catholic/Christian schools but not everyone is cut out for that.</p>

<p>Good luck, Colby, and let us know how everything works out for you!</p>

<p>Ummm, folks…the OP said his dad makes $150k in salary plus bonus. He’s going to have a fairly sizable EFC (~$35k Institutional Methodology, upper 20s by FAFSA) based on income alone, even with six kids in the family, assuming relatively low home equity and not a lot of savings.</p>

<p>OP, you may want to talk to the FA departments and provide documentation that your dad took out money from the 401(k) and that’s a one-time addition to income. They can make “professional judgment” modifications, esp. if the 401(k) $$ was pulled out due to financial hardship. </p>

<p>OP, just so you know, pulling $$ out of a 401(k) is an EXTREMELY expensive tax proposition. Folks generally net about 50 cents on the dollar when they do this, after federal taxes, state/local taxes and penalties are included. There are a few exceptions to the penalties, so I hope your folks make sure the Form 1099-R reporting the distribution is correct and that they check with a tax preparer/accountant if there are any questions. (I’m a 401(k) administrator.) </p>

<p>However, realize that the colleges are going to expect significant parental contributions based on your family’s income. Colleges will take into account how many students in a family are enrolled in college. Schools that ask for the CSS/PROFILE ask about tuition paid for other siblings not yet in college, but they do not necessarily reduce your parents’ contribution for that. Depends on the school. FAFSA schools will not care about tuition payments made for sibs not enrolled in college.</p>