USING Music to Get Into Colleges?

College Majors Music Major
1

I’m a little confused on how the college music supplement process goes. I’ve read all over the site and have found that yes, people do use music supplements as ways of getting into top colleges (Princeton, Yale, Georgetown, Williams).

Do you apply to the school normally and then audition for the orchestra? If this is the case, then how can a music supplement help as much as people make it seem? If the admissions office sees you as a strong candidate and then sends the application over to the music department/orchestra dept ( this is what I’ve read happens), is there a higher chance of being admitted into that school?

From what I’ve gathered, I have the best shot at schools with no music conservatory/music programs (Yale, Princeton, UPenn, etc.) just because they won’t shut out non-music majors

I hope to be able to use my musical achievements to my advantage in applying to colleges this year just because my academic stats aren’t stellar; just average for the schools I’m looking at (33 ACT, 3.83 GPA)

Concertmistress of a state orchestra (Oakland Youth Orchestra)
Second co-principal of another community orchestra (Detroit Symphony Orchestra Civic)
Winner of the 2014-2015 Michigan American String Teachers’ Association Concerto Competition
2013-14 OYO Symphony Concerto Competition
2 Place BBSO Young Artist Competition
1st Place 2011-2012 OYO Solo Competition
1st Place 2008-2009 DSO Youth Competition
Theresa Schuster Memorial Award 2012-2013
Southern Great Lakes Symphony Finalist 2012-2013

I’ve also played in chamber groups, with professional orchestras and youth orchestras.

Any advice, input, answers regarding the admissions process - anything is appreciated!

2

For most of the schools you’re talking about you send in an additional music supplement with recordings - similar to a pre-screening tape. Although each of the schools may list what they’d like on the recording or video, and how long. (Generally music supplements are short.) There are some schools, like Emory or Skidmore, which also have an audition as part of the application process, particularly if there are special scholarships. Stanford gives you the choice of submitting a recorded supplement or auditioning live.

What do you want to study in college? What kind of college are you looking for - asides from it being a ‘top’ college? How good a music program do you want it to have, how good an orchestra? Will it matter to you if the college orchestra is not as good as your youth orchestras? Do you plan to keep studying violin in college, or do you just plan to play? I don’t know about Georgetown, but Yale, Princeton, Williams have lots of performance opportunities for non-music majors.

3

Well, like everything in college admissions, it depends on a lot of factors. If you can convince an admissions officer that music is an integral part of you, AND that you’re really good at it, then it’ll probably help you. Music supplements help in that they verify that you’re actually good at what you say you’re good at, and because they give admissions officers a chance to see you “in action” - something most people don’t get! But if you’re applying for computer science and you make music an essential part of your application, that’s going to raise some eyebrows. I’d say that for pursuing a non-music major, especially if you’re going for STEM, you should have some other aspects of your application to make you an appealing candidate for that specific major. Music can help, but it won’t get you in the door unless you’re applying specifically for music.

At least, that’s my guess. I’m no expert !

4

You sort of blew your anonymity on CC by listing all those accolades (probably not a great idea, tempting as it is.) However, a violinist of your caliber will probably get a bump-up in admissions from schools like Princeton and Penn. But, as others say, what do you want to study? How much do you want to play violin during your college years, or did you do all of this music just to get an edge on admissions to college? What do you want to do with your life?

5

Of course your music will help you with admissions, and it does not matter what you plan to major in, it really doesn’t. Presumably, you can participate in extracurricular music ensembles and orchestras and will contribute to life on campus with your music. But you are also under no obligation to do any music at all, just because you submit an arts supplement. Personally I think it creates a bit of a moral obligation, but I certainly know a few Ivy athlete recruits who played for a semester or two and then stopped. However, I assume music is a valued part of your life and you want to continue.

You can continue private lessons while in college, and can continue to perform inside or outside of the college environment. You can major in anything (some of the most talented musicians at Ivies etc. do not major in music), do a BA in music (non-performance usually, but check each school’s website carefully; for instance, Harvard will say it is a non-performance program but they do give some credit for private study and for performance in some campus music organizations). You can also consider a double major or double degree. Here is a good essay on choices: http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html

In our experience, doing an arts supplement is not like applying to a conservatory. But it gives an opportunity to include a full music resume, letters of recommendation (2 is fine) from music teachers (often high school teachers and guidance people know little of a student’s outside music activities, talent, work ethic or character), awards and concerts (you can include programs, awards, media articles but don’t be too overwhelming).

We never found out if the supplement went to the music dept. or not. Rather than present a portfolio of several pieces, my kid called an Ivy and other admissions offices and asked if they would prefer her to cue her best 3 minutes in one piece. We did not expect anyone to spend much time listening, but we could have been wrong. You should feel free to call and ask what they would like.

I would not expect auditions until you are on campus, and generally auditions are not part of the regular admissions process, but there are exceptions, as mentioned above.

By all means, if you are a talented, hard-working and experienced musician, submit an arts supplement. This is a big part of your life and is a good way for schools to know you better, beyond what can be covered in the common application, and it does not often lead to auditions or even further contact. You can major in whatever you want. Schools are looking for individuals who can contribute to campus life, though, and may certainly hope you will participate in extracurricular music if accepted. Good luck.

6

I agree with compmom, major won’t matter. As you surmised, a lot of schools give weight to musical kids, a lot of the kids who go to Juilliard Pre college, for example, end up in schools like HYP…

That said, I would also be careful to say that how much the music may weigh in your favor may not be as much as you think. For example, with the pre college kids I am talking about, most of them had stellar academics and music simply gave them an edge over kids who hadn’t done music, so if two kids with 2200+ SAT’s, 3.95 gpa’s, etc, etc apply, and one of them is a talented musician, the musician has a better shot of getting in. I think that playing music definitely helps with the admission process, for a number of reasons (schools wanting to have good orchestras, seeing music as a committment, the skills involved, etc) and it could in the OP’s case if they are truly borderline, help nudge them into being more likely.

One thing I can say, it won’t hurt you, it can only help:).

7

@SpiritManager, I do love music and would love to be able to play in an orchestra. I’ve listened to videos of concerts of many of the colleges I’ve been looking at just to see what level of playing is expected and whether I would enjoy participating. By the looks of it, most college orchestras that I’ve listened to play great pieces and sound just as good as any amateur orchestra.

I don’t plan on majoring in music or studying it, but I do hope to continue playing in non-major programs. As mentioned before, being a apart of an orchestra would be perfect for what the level of musical involvement I’m looking for in a college. Do you think this seems plausible?

Thanks so much for your advice!

8

Of course you can play in a college orchestra. There are auditions in the fall usually. Again, you can major in anything. It is an extracurricular at most colleges. There often aren’t separate major and non-major orchestras, unless the college also has a conservatory.

9

The other thing to keep in mind is you can always continue to perform in a Youth Orchestra if the college orchestra proves disappointing. I’m sure OYO has students from CAL, and SFSYO has students from Stanford etc. Same is true in NYC and elsewhere. What is it you are interested in studying? And why did you list the colleges you did? Just because of their ranking or for some other reason? Even if your musical resume helps you get into a college, you’ll still need to find a good fit in all the other aspects.

10

@pursuingcollege‌ , is that 3.83 unweighted on a 4 point scale or from the well-known IB school in your area? If either is true, combined with a 33 ACT you’re most certainly in range with stellar applicants, so my bet is your music supplement and your accomplishments therein will certainly assist you :wink:

Also, depending on your desires and final packages and fiscal considerations, you should know that you have a strong local option in your back yard where I suspect you could ask permission to audition for the highest level orchestra populated by the best School of Music students. While it’s usually restricted to music performance majors, I’ve seen the odd case at Michigan where this has worked out for an academic student. Being in-state in Michigan is a bit like winning the lottery in terms of the cost-to-rigor/quality ratio :wink: So if you were referring to schools like Michigan, where the highest ensembles are usually reserved for performance majors, while it’s true that generally its difficult to access them, difficult does not mean impossible. And given the school size and the nature of the student body, there’s no shortage of quality ensembles for the rest of the student population. Just a side note for consideration :wink:

I’ve made quite a few assumptions from your comment about being “shut out” at schools with a music program, and considered your location, which is why I’ve chosen to address the foregoing. I’m going to go a bit further even, since you sound like you’re early enough in selecting your targets for application.

In addition to your ivies/LAC interests, if what is concerning you is access and ability to pursue music while also pursuing academics, there is another avenue available to consider at Michigan, which is the Bachelor of Musical arts which accommodates a cognate degree. That gives one closer access to the SOM while still taking advantage of the academic power house. A second avenue is dual degree between SOM and LSA…and you can drop one any time during sophomore year with no harm. That scenario requires application to both the SOM and LSA. Each strategy gives you access to SOM.

Don’t take these comments as discouragement on your Ivy applications…but rather as a supplemental notion…SOM is as much of a statistical crap shoot as the Ivies, though in the case of the former, your background would serve you well. But being in-state in Michigan also advantages you academically (and financially) compared with OOS applicants given the school’s policy of holding a certain number of spots for state residents at a time when Michigan’s acceptance rate is getting as low/as difficult as many of the ivies.

So your overall application strategy might benefit from inclusion of this approach.

By way of example, between his academic merit scholarship and his music scholarship, my son paid no tuition at Michigan during his four years there. His OOS cohorts by contrast, paid in excess of $220,000, (residence included) by comparison during the course of four years. Even generous packages like Princeton or U. Chicago couldn’t really beat this financially speaking.

Lastly, I mention Princeton/Chicago because hailing from a small program, my son initially wasn’t sure about what he’d like in terms of school size. But after a visit to each, he actually found he preferred Michigan, and during his time there, found many ways to make it “feel” more intimate. If you share these types of concerns, be sure to make visits and sit in on classes :wink:

11

I think your musical accomplishments should be a positive in the college admissions process, though how much weight they’re given probably varies from school to school. Just as one data point, my son is very active in the jazz program at Columbia and tells me that the head of the jazz program is often aware when a really good high school jazz musician is applying and will weigh in with the admissions office in support of the applicant. Now I expect he doesn’t have as much pull as the football coach, but the school does get a pretty steady stream of good jazz musicians, and I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

I’d also offer a (hopefully constructive) cautionary note on your terminology. When I saw the title of your thread “USING Music to Get Into Colleges” (with the emphasis on “using”), it evoked a negative image of someone who didn’t really care that much about music but saw it as a device to improve the chances of admissions to college. I don’t think you intended that, but if I were an admissions officer, I would be much more ready to consider your musical achievements positively if I thought that music was an integral part of who you are than if I thought you were just doing it to enhance your chances of getting into college. And obviously, the reason that the head of a college music program would go to bat for a talented musician is that they want the musician to be an active participant in music at college.

12

I think being an accomplished musician does help for someone who is in the ballpark for admission to a given college. Schools “class build” and look for students to fill certain roles (particularly at liberals arts colleges). I agree about not trying to use your music at a school that has a school of music or conservatory associated with it. I would also avoid using this skill at a school with strong music (i.e.: Yale-lots of good musicians who intend to major in something else apply there. Yale has great performing groups and teachers though they do not have an undergrad music major-their grad program is great).

My daughter was a national merit semifinalist and a decent student in addition to having attended summer music festivals on scholarship.She did have several C’s on her transcript from her sophomore year of high school She was admitted to schools where she may not have been admitted if not for the music (Vassar, for example was one admit). She was admitted to Oberlin because she was a good swimmer and was courted heavily by them for that skill, not music. She did not even attempt being evaluated by the conservatory! I think she may have been borderline for their conservatory at best. In her case, she “used” both of these skills (one or the other depending on the school) to stand out more . Her high school counselor thought she would have access to schools as she had “something special” in addition to her academics and SAT. D was clear about wanting to major in the sciences in her applications but indicated that she wanted to engage in her extracurricular activities in college (which she did throughout undergrad school). She got a very large scholarship at the school she did attend; DIII schools can’t give athletic scholarships but coaches often can influence who gets the general scholarships. I imagine the same goes for music.

13

Just want to clarify that Yale does have an undergrad BA music major, but not an undergrad BM/performance degree (which Hornet may have been referring to: the School of Music is a grad school). If you have done well academically and are talented enough for the arts supplement to be helpful, you could certainly apply there.

14

@glassharmonica I would love to major in the business area, as that’s where a lot of passions lie. I would love to b keep playing in college in an orchestra or in ensemble groups, but wouldn’t really be looking to major or minor in it.

15

@SpiritManager UPenn is my dream school because I would absolutely love to attend Wharton. Most schools I listed because I’m interested in majoring in specific areas those schools are known for!

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@kmcmom13 My school does GPA a bit strangely… the 3.83 I recalculated myself but I’ll recalculate and let you know what it would be on a 4 point scale. Are you referring to the Detroit Civic Orchestra Youth Programs?

"Also, depending on your desires and final packages and fiscal considerations, you should know that you have a strong local option in your back yard where I suspect you could ask permission to audition for the highest level orchestra populated by the best School of Music students. While it’s usually restricted to music performance majors, I’ve seen the odd case at Michigan where this has worked out for an academic student. "

I wasn’t quite sure what you meant by that. Could you explain?

Just wanted to say that UofM is also a school at the top of my list - Ross is a GREAT business school but it’s known for being extremely difficult to get into the BBA program, which I;m extremely interested in.

Thank you so much for your thoughts and input! :slight_smile:

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@SpiritManager‌ just want to clarify–she is talking about OYO from Michigan, not California.

18

Yes, I realized that after I posted. I originally thought she had moved from Michigan to the Bay Area where we have a top Youth Orchestra - Oakland Youth Orchestra. Same name :slight_smile:

19

Just wanted to add that aside from colleges welcoming talent for their extracurricular music organizations, schools and employers alike value the work ethic, discipline, time-managment skills and dedication of accomplished musicians, and they know these character traits and habits will transfer to other endeavors :slight_smile:

20

@pursuingcollege‌ – I was referring to U Mich as being a good option for application (because from your initial post you hadn’t mentioned it, and sometimes posters overlook what’s in their own back yard :wink: ) – because even though their highest level orchestra is usually reserved for performance majors at the School of Music, Theatre and Dance, sometimes its possible to make the case for joining it when you’re a non-major, and even if that is too time consuming or otherwise not viable, there are a lot of top level opportunities for ensemble work. So basically I was saying you had an in-state option for a rigorous school with lots of musical opportunity whether you’re a music major or not :wink: But it sounds like you already knew that!

Ross is an excellent goal considering your interests, and only a handful of b-schools can touch it. The upside of a large University like Michigan with a school of music (SOM) is that its a very musically robust environment. So that was all I meant about options in your back yard, with a note about the financial angle.

My son’s HS cohort was a gifted-talented magnet program, so there was lots of discussion about ivies, packages, and UMich among the parents. Sometimes a package from an ivy can trump umich, but sometimes not…it depends on income level etc. Depending on your family’s income range, (eg if they earn too much to get a lot of need-based award at the Ivies) Michigan is a great financial choice that can be inaccessible financially to those out of state. Michigan also meets demonstrated need for in-state students.

So IMHO, kids in Michigan who can get into UMich are very fortunate in the larger scheme of things because they can access an academic and musical powerhouse at a much lower cost than many/most out-of-state options. Some in-staters don’t know this initially :wink:

Given the holistic nature of admissions at UMich, I also think your music supplement will help you. They like to understand and see a habit of deep passion/engagement in a pursuit. It signals a questing nature, and also explains a split focus academically. So just like the ivies, it makes sense to use the supplement to help them define your nature as a fit.