Using the AP credits

Parents Forum
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<p>Any opinions on using AP credits for skipping classes? While my D has qualified to use AP scores to skip a class (she may qualify for up to 12 credits) I lean towards taking the class and not using the AP credits. I am not sure my D really got enough out of the AP class to compensate for the college class. Also her Education major requires a minimum GPA so why skip a class that she may get a GPA lift. The benefit would be that it frees up the burden of the double major- Education/English.</p>

<p>Anyone have experience with this</p>

2

<p>S's alma mater automatically applied his AP credits to courses (non-major) so that freed up time in his schedule to take the necessary ECs and courses toward his major. Otherwise, it would have been tough to fit everything in.</p>

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<p>Tom, I think it depends on what subject she tested out of vs what she's majoring in.</p>

<p>I wouldn't consider it "skipping" a class. The college is willing to give her credit for taking it already. To take it again probably means using up your valuable tuition money to re-take something she already knows. She could take something else, instead, and broaden her horizons.</p>

<p>But it really depends on the subject. For instance, if they're willing to give her credit for an English class, and she's a good writer, take the credit. But if it's a class that she will need to continue in (for example, Psych 101 if she needs to take upper-level psych for her major), then I'd have her talk to someone in the dept and see if she will really have the grounding necessary to go on in that subject based on what she took in her AP class.</p>

<p>AP exams are standardized, and the colleges know what they cover. If she got a 4 or 5 on the exam, she must know the material the college thinks is necessary or they wouldn't let her out of the class. Not all colleges accept all AP credits for all classes. I know there are colleges that won't let you AP out of courses in your major. (Tufts wouldn't let my friend's son AP out of basic physics, because he is planning to major in physics).</p>

<p>Personal example - my son got 5's on the Spanish and Economics AP exams. He plans to be an Econ major. He took the Spanish credit and went on to an upper-level Spanish culture class. But the college would only let him exempt Econ 101 if he had passed both the Macro-econ & Micro-econ exams - and he only took Macro. To be honest, I was just as happy because I felt he needed to take the basic course in his major at his college, to be sure he was on the same page as the college for upper-level classes.</p>

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<p>She plans to major in English/Education and her AP courses are AP Lang. Ap Lit and Psych. Looking at the college websites it would only be 6 credits since she would only test out of the entry level English and Psych101 which she would need for Education. So the question is does the flexibility gained from the 6 credits offset the opportunity to lift the GPA.</p>

5

<p>It depends on the university and the specific department. Recommendations vary. </p>

<p>Another thing to consider is the score she received on the test. A 5, in my opinion, usually represents a pretty solid understanding of the subject matter. A 4 (or a 3 if the school gives credit for it), maybe not.</p>

<p>Double majoring is tough. It would be hard to say no to the 6 credits of flexibility if she got 5s on those tests.</p>

6

<p>I would prob. say take the Psyc.101 credit. at least.</p>

<p>My S was able to utilize almost all of his AP credits(20). If not for that it would probably be taking him 5 years to graduate instead of 4.</p>

7

<p>I'm thinking my son might use his AP credits--a full semester's worth--to do a longer study abroad if he wants to. I don't think he'll want to subtract coursework.</p>

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<p>If she's interested in an English major, I'd think she'd definitely want to take the credit and pass on the entry level English language and lit classes. They are full of a wide range of people, since they're usually required of everyone. I think she'd be wasting her time and would be frustrated at the level of many of her peers in those classes. Use the time to take something off the wall that she wouldn't otherwise take!</p>

<p>D is at a public university, and brought 58 credits with her from high school. She'll be able to take 2 really tough majors, and one minor (maybe 2), and still graduate in 4 years. H and I both strongly advised her not to try to rush through her undergrad years. She'll also be able to take a light to med courseload throughout her 4 years.</p>

9

<p>Judging by dragongirl's experience - no matter how much you want to put away those general requirements, a 4 on AP Calc does not really mean you should take Calc II. There is no room for mercy if you get sick and miss a few classes.</p>

10

<p>The curves on the calculus AP tests are too generous, in my opinion. Students with 4s on either the AB or BC test seem to struggle in the next level, suggesting that their knowledge of the AP course had some gaps in it.</p>

<p>Fortunately, the OP's daughter is not struggling with the decision of whether to retake calculus, though. Students are less likely to get in trouble skipping an English or psych course.</p>

<p>But it's still a good idea to find out what the university and the individual departments think. For example, at my daughter's college, both the biology and chemistry departments encourage students who have passed the AP tests to take the college's introductory courses in those fields rather than skipping them. On the other hand, some other departments, such as economics, encourage students to accept the AP credit and skip the intro courses. So it can even vary within a single university.</p>

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<p>My son got 5's on all his APs and got credit for all of them. He's very happy to have gotten rid of most of his distribution requirements and to be taking more advanced science, math and computer programming courses. His grades are fine, so I think he did fine. CMU does give a math placement test in addition to the AP on the theory that double-checking that you remember the material is a good idea. They have a big chart of what they give credits for - often a semester for a score of a 4 vs. a year for a score of 5. Nothing for 3's.</p>

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<p>One of my Ds could not use any of her APs to "Skip" classes, as they were all courses required for her major; a friend at another school HAD to skip the intro classes and was a bit lost in the beginning, they are both science majors.</p>

<p>Another D had the option to skip from her university, she elected not to skip the 1st calc class, she had a 5 but had not gotten into caculus first term, so needed the review, and was glad she had done so, as it was different info. She skipped bio, did not skip chem, as she wanted prep for Ochem, and skipped humanities classes, so it was class by class and based on the next course required</p>

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<p>My D used her AP credits to accumulate enough overall to get a parking pass at her school. She needed 60 credits overall and will get a parking pass January of her sophomore year.</p>

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<p>You're assuming she'll get a better grade by repeating something, but that's not a slam-dunk guarantee. </p>

<p>In some cases the l0l level course feels like the hardest! In liberal arts courses, the syllabus leaps across many subjects in a short time frame. Here is where the department wants to introduce you into thinking and writing the way their discipline does. I always put a lot of time into the l0l courses in college. The next level up was often on a more specific subject, a smaller range of material, and I could get into it more deeply. My grades were better on the 200 courses than 101's. Maybe it's just learning style; your D may have some personal insight that counts. I found l0l courses very confusing and preferred the focus of 200 level, in the Humanities subjects.</p>

<p>Also it might be wise for her to contact the faculty member who deals with the whole teacher certification at the end of this rainbow, to make sure the state where she attends school won't require her to have something called Psych 101 on her transcript. It's probably okay, but worth checking.</p>

<p>FOr APLanguage, which my S took, I recall it was a skill set. If she got a 4 or 5, I'm sure she's well-versed in how to write clearly, so might be really
wasting her time on an Introduction to Writing kind of class.</p>

<p>With AP Lit, she'd have studied many genres, and how to analyze any piece of literature thrown in front of her. Perhaps she'd find it exciting to USE that skill now and take a 200 level class such as "Victorian Novel" or "American Poetry 1950-present" rather than "Intro to Literature." </p>

<p>She can also backtrack and take up the Intro to Literature next year if she's made a big mistake. </p>

<p>She can try out a course for 2 weeks and use the drop-add option; just go to the class as an "audit" (voluntary) which she might use as a fallback in case she ends up changing her mind after sitting in on both of them. Not always easy to schedule this, but try anyway and sit in on a few extra classes while deciding in the first 2 weeks.</p>

<p>She might now email the faculty chair in English, Education, and Psych. Pose the question and see if anyone responds. No harm to ask.</p>

<p>Weird story: My H skipped Intro to Religion l0l because the professor was impressed with some background reading he'd done. So he just started taking 200 level classes. Eventually he wanted to declare a double major in Religion and Music, but the Religion department said he'd have to go back and take Religion l0l with the freshmen. He decided not to, so never quite got to say he was a double major including Religion.
He's been clergyman now for 30 years, with a M.H.L. (Master of Hebrew Letters) and earned an honorary D.D. (Doctor of Divinity) for pulpit service. But he missed Religion 101. By now he's probably read most everything they covered. Oddly he has to be careful in job interviews not to give the impression he majored in Religion as an undergraduate, because that would be a lie. Nobody likes a dishonest clergyman.</p>

<p>EDIT: The GPA requirements to get into teacher training programs are not killers.
Check a few grad schools at state teachers colleges, but I think you'll find them asking for 3.0 averages, maybe 3.3. If she's aiming for Harvard, Columbia Teachers College, Brown etc. perhaps it's 3.5. It's on their website if you hunt hard. She does not have to claw her way into teachers college through the highest GPA, is my point.</p>

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<p>Depending on the course, there would be no point in repeating it. If the student knows the material through the successful completion of the AP class, it's time to move on and take the higher level class. In most cases there's nothing to worry about - the college will have plenty of higher level and related course to maximize the student's time there. In many cases the student would be bored to death taking a class that's covering material they already know.</p>

<p>If the college didn't think students got enough out of their AP classes to move ahead (i.e. skip some basic classes), they wouldn't allow them to skip the class.</p>

16

<p>I've had two that made 5s on the BC Calculus test and started in Calc III. No problems at all.</p>

<p>Both had enough AP credit to register as sophomores their first semesters.</p>

<p>One was able to complete a major in engineering and minor in music in eight semesters because of the AP shortcuts available.</p>

<p>For that one also, AP credit for Physics was not offered, but a 5 on the Physics AP test was the credential needed for Honors Physics, which turned out to be easy and fun, with speakers, field trips, special labs, etc., since they knew the students knew the material already.</p>

<p>So the benefits of AP credit are a little bit subtle sometimes.</p>

17

<p>There are a couple potential downsides to using the AP credits for advancement, particularly within a major:
1) The department may have their own twist or approach or special topics that the AP course either doesn't cover, or shorted out. You can still get a 5 on the exam and not have covered all the topics a college department might expect. Each school and department varies.
2) using thAP test for placement can land a freshman in a lass with upperclassmen - and with expectations that the student has mastered the High School to college transition, and understands the dynamics of a ciollege semester with few class meetings (relative to HS), and short semesters.</p>

<p>My DS found himself in the second situation at a very challenging mid-South school. He jumped right into the 200-level economics classes his freshman year, in classes with a bunch of sophmores and juniors with a lot more college experience. They understood the accelerative nature of a college semester - he was used to the relatively linear plod of a meets-every-day high school course. When things accelerated in the last weeks, he was caught by surprise - and had a hard time keeping up because he had been lulled into a lower level of focus than was really needed. He recovered - but those first semesters as "Mr AP" were a real eye opener in what turned out to be his major. </p>

<p>A second experience, with my DD, who seems to be Ms-All-State AP taker. Her college (a major technical school very near Boston <g>) gives almost no credit or placement for AP courses in the core subjects of Physics, Chem and Bio - just take their courses and get ready to swim fast. Could only use her BC Calculus scores to skip the one semester Single-Variate Calc course. While she got some kind of 'credit" for many of her other bazillion APs, it is not at all clear what good those will do her: They don't replace the basic intro courses, don't help for placement in the major or progress towards it, don't help with the required distribution courses in the Humanities - they just seem to be some anomolous and not useful lump of credits. The good news is that with all those APs she seems to have been able to (just barely) keep her head above water.
So - APs can get you in deeper than you might want - or not in deep at all. depends on the school and the program.</g></p>

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<p>
[quote]
1) The department may have their own twist or approach or special topics that the AP course either doesn't cover, or shorted out. You can still get a 5 on the exam and not have covered all the topics a college department might expect. Each school and department varies.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>H teaches college biology, and every year he has <em>some</em> students who used AP credits to place into 2nd year courses, who didn't master core concepts well enough to follow lectures. They are shocked and frustrated to fall behind and get low grades on exams. So definitely this is a case by case situation. It depends on the nature of the major, and of course, on the quality of the AP course itself.</p>

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<p>In S's case, his AP credits exempted him from some basic intro Freshman writing seminars and let him avoid taking math/science courses in college, areas outside his major and only necessary for degree requirements. He was also able to take fewer courses each semester and not only stay on track but is eligible to graduate a semester early. It's worked out well for him but b/c they didn't stand in for intro classes in an area he later progressed further, he was at no disadvantage. </p>

<p>Bonus is that he's decided to do graduation next summer with his friends, and we're going to bank the savings on next semester's tuition/room & board for any graduate school he may pursue. We rationalize that it's his hard work that avoided the last semester, and he was given a choice to take an easy semester and hang out with friends or come home and bank the money. He chose the latter.</p>

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<p>It is very kid and college specific. My S had 5's on 10 AP exams and received credit for 41 hours at his school. His science and math AP's moved him into the next level class as a frosh, and all his humanities ended up eating up all his electives. So, he gets to "specialize w/in his engineering major by having all those electives available for whatever he wants to take, 8 instead of 4 classes in his preferred specialty. It is a great win-win in his case. </p>

<p>But, again, it is really up to each students comfort level with the subject matter and the whole "freshman get adjusted to college" situation. Every kid is different.</p>