<p>My congressman's office just called me today and basically told me that they would give me a nomination to the Merchant Marine Academy if I apply to it. I want to go to USNA the most, but I can't get a nomination from my congressman this year because his vacancies are all full, and USMMA would be another avenue to becoming a Naval Officer. However, I want to be the best officer I can and I know that producing military leaders is not the primary focus of USMMA. Would I receive the same training in leadership at King's Point as I would at the Naval Academy?</p>
<p>Hiya usnagirl -
My son went through the same ordeal. He was dead set on going to Annapolis. His Blue and Gold officer represented both USNA and USMMA. We sat down with him and he basically said that if you want a degree in English or Philosophy, go to USNA. If you want to be a leader, go to USMMA. Now, remember, this is a guy that graduated from USNA and is a retired USMC Colonel. And he represented both places.</p>
<p>I'm sure that there are many that will disagree, but that's what he said. Obviously, both are the best of the best, but think about this...if you go to KP, you'll get a year of real shipboard experience (won't get that at Annapolis), as well as a degree from one of the most respected academic communities. You'll also come out with your Coast Guard license. Granted, the curriculum is not as wide as it is at USNA and the classes are pretty much picked for you, depending on the route you choose. </p>
<p>But, really, what do I know? I didn't attend either. However, there are a ton of folks on this board that went to one or the other. I'll leave it up to them ;)</p>
<p>So what did your son do?</p>
<p>oh yeah...sorry about that. He's in his 2nd year at KP. Currently at sea. :)</p>
<p>I can only echo JRH's reply. My S had his heart set on USNA and did, in fact, get nominations to USNA. USMA and USMMA. When the appointment to Kings Point came he did not hesitate to accept it. We talked to his history teacher
(USNA graduate) who assured us that we would not go wrong at KP. He went on to say that KP actually gets into some of the hands-on aspects of seamanship well before USNA. I don't think my son has regretted his decision at all. In fact he could not help feeling a little proud about beating Annapolis
at the Cornell University drill competition earlier this year :). The only thing that concerned us was the limited number of degrees offered at KP. As JRH said you are not going to go there and major in sociology or computer science, this school is all about moving really big boats from point "A" to point "B" without breaking anything. (or spilling anything.) With regard to leadership,
a Kings Pointer has a unique opportunity to see leadership from a variety of perspectives. You will see the traditional style of military discipline while you are on campus. A few moments with L/CMDR Ragin should convince you of that! But you will also get a chance to see a more "corporate" form of leadership when you go to sea with civilian sailors covered by union contracts. I think the mixture gives our M/N a chance to see leadership in all it's forms and helps them to take a more balanced point of view. My S returned from his first sea year period on a civilian container ship and then spent last week at Fort Dix with the 2nd Batallion of the 25th Marines as they were doing workups in preparation for deployment. The KP M/N were given M16s and assigned to weapons company doing simulated HMMWV patrols, combat shooting and searching vehicles. All of the classes were taught by NCOs who had recently returned from Iraq. He seemed able to make the transition from low key civilian leadership to high octane Marine Corps leadership without missing a beat and I couldn't be more proud. I confess that I had some misgivings when he first went there, but I have since become a
very vocal fan of this school. (Ask anyone I work with :)) and I long ago stopped counting the number of graduates from other acadamies who quietly told me "If I had it to do over again........" This is an amazing school that provides an incredibile variety of experiences that simply cannot be duplicated anywhere else.
I hope this helps. At the end of the day you should follow your heart. You won't go wrong no matter where you end up. Good luck and thank you for your willingness to serve .</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Please read the first chapter of the following book:</p>
<p>In Peace and War: A History of the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy at Kings Point</p>
<p>You'll get a good understanding of the wide variety of leadership positions that can come from a Kings Point education.</p>
<p>I agree completely with all the posts here, and especially KPmarineopsdad. My son's story was basically the same, except he had his heart set on CGA & USNA. After doing the research and finding out what a unique opportunity KP has to offer, it was a "no brain-er" decision about which academy to choose. Even though the major's offered at KP focus on the Maritime trades, post graduate opportunities abound for the KP graduate.</p>
<p>
[quote]
it was a "no brain-er" decision about which academy to choose.
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</p>
<p>For him. </p>
<p>Other candidates may choose differently. ;)</p>
<p>Even after exploring everything KP has to offer, both during the time there and after, some candidates may find that "the other" academy still has things that are more suited for them, things that cannot be offered at USMMA.</p>
<p>As a mid who accepted KP 2 days before getting rejected from Annapolis, I am going to have to say that this was a great decision.
While the leadership training will not be as focused as it would be at Annapolis, you will get some basic leadership training and have to option to either focus on it or not as you choose. CDR Bonnadonna's Ethics and Leadership concentration is a great option which I am currently doing right now, and over the course of your time here, you will be asked and have the option to step up into various leadership roles on your time here.</p>
<p>As for going Active duty, there is no better choice than KP.</p>
<p>Lets start with the Navy first. If you want to go SWO, KP is much better than Annapolis. Because you get hands on training on sailing ships and by the time you are done with your second sea period, you will have more sea time than most Ltjgs and LTs in the Navy. In addition, you know more than everyone else about relative motion, rules of the road, and basic seamanship. I have heard stories about Ensigns straight out KP already getting the nickname "Salty Dog" because of their time here. Also, if you want to go on a surface cruise during your sea period, KPers typically get the best evaluations because while the other mids are shadowing around some junior officer, KPers help out on the bridge with the NCOs.
If you want to fly, KP has the same number of slots as Annapolis but 1/4 the number of graduates, you do the math.
If you want to be a marine, KP has a great MC Ops program which you can join.
If you want to join the Army, CPT Buffardi at school is a great recruiter and you can choose to go Active, Reserve, or Guard. You can even choose to take your commission as a WO1 and sail on Army watercraft, as well as doing anything else in the Army. You can also ask to go to jump school and air assault school with the Army Program.
You can also join the AF or CG.</p>
<p>A couple of the disadvantages of KP include the limited curriculum, only 6 majors. In addition, all classes are difficult and you will take around 190 credits while here... Harvard grads get around 140. In addition, you jam pack it into 3 years because of sea year.
Also another problem, which a lot of the people who apply to the other academies find is that not everyone shares your views on the Regiment, Leadership and the military. This can make some people decide to leave, enlist, or even apply to other academies. While it is difficult to put up with this, it really isn't that bad, but take this as a warning before you go here because it may hurt your moral a bit.</p>
<p>I hope I covered everything, but if I didn't just ask more questions and I'll see what I can do.</p>
<p>Luigi I was speaking of my son, not others.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Hence my use of the phrase "For him."</p>
<p>All the service academies have the same leadership opportunities. Its more of a matter if you decide to pursue them. Its an ignorant statement to say that KP produces better leaders than USNA; they both produce excellent leaders. However, we definitely have an advantage in how to operate ships, there is no question about that. As previously mentioned, you can take your commission in any branch, which really sets KP apart. Keep in mind that this is a MARITIME school, and it will always be the focus of this school. If you have your heart on Air Force, Army (not Vessel Operations) or whatever, this is not the school for you. Do ROTC instead. I've seen many people quit because this school simply did not cater to their tastes. I remember my plebe year a kid was miserable because he hated boats and wanted to go Air Force. We don't need or want people like that.</p>
<p>My daughter, class of 2010, dreamed of attending USNA ever since her grandparents took her on a day trip there IN SECOND GRADE. Her screen name on web was NavyGurl2010 or something like that for many years. For Christmas she asked for USNA sweetshirts, hats or books. She had only one dream: To attend USNA.</p>
<p>After a hard working high school career, she was GREATLY honored to receive nominations to USAFA, USMA, USNA and USMMA.</p>
<p>Alas, the stars did not align for her to go to USNA. A numbers game left her without the appointment. AND IM VERY GLAD.</p>
<p>And KINGS POINT became her choice.</p>
<p>Indoc, Plebe Year and the whole Regimental experience honed her into the straightforward, respectful and articulate person she now is.</p>
<p>The Offshore Sailing Team is now her passion.</p>
<p>And now shes sailing the world.</p>
<p>We receieved a phone call from her in port at SINGAPORE last week and all I can tell you is that she was beaming with enthusiasm, learning so much so fast and has become a confident young woman in her time at KP. And now she is truly becoming an ENGINEER.</p>
<p>A self proclaimed "proud dad", I can only tell you that her decision to attend Kings Point was the best for her. We could not have created a better college for her with her dreams of sailing, someday serving in the Navy and becoming an engineer. I can in no way see how Annapolis could have been better. </p>
<p>Hope your choices leave you with such totally satisfying results.
Good luck.</p>
<p>I have to AOs who work for me (one is and 05 and the other is an 06 select)who both went to the Zoo and they have had the chance to meet a bunch of KP Mids (all who have finished their Sea Year) and they both have said if they knew then what they know now about KP they would have gone to KP but still chosen to go into the AF. </p>
<p>The breadth of experience KP Mids get is what sets them apart.</p>
<p>I would also say with regard to Army and Air Force, with the emphasis both those services are placing on expeditionary missions, the Kings Point perspective is a huge asset that will serve those services well.</p>
<p>Usnagirl;</p>
<p>You are lucky because you get to decide between several excellent options. </p>
<p>I’ve read the comments on this forum and on the USNA forum and most of the advice is excellent. </p>
<p>Here is an eclectic list of information and personal opinions that I didn’t see listed on either forum; take it for what its worth:</p>
<p>-USNA reputation vs. USMMA: The Naval Academy has the best academic reputation of any of the service academies. The other four academies have many Cadets and Midshipmen that didn’t get into USNA. However, USNA has few Midshipmen that were rejected by the other academies. Kings Point is the least known of the five service academies. I don’t know how many times that I have had to explain what USMMA is and why it exists.</p>
<p>-Acceptance rates: Naval 13%; MMA 24%. However taking into account the higher attrition rate at USMMA; the ratio of applicants to graduates at USNA is 11%, while at USMMA it’s 18%.</p>
<p>-Princeton Review ratings: The Midshipmen at USNA give high ratings to their teachers, while the Midshipmen at USMMA give low rankings to theirs; they also give low rankings to the food.</p>
<p>-The government spends half as much per graduate at USMMA compared to what they spend on graduates of the other four academies; according to Expectmore.gov;</p>
<p>-No matter which academy that you choose you will hate it after the first week; and be extremely proud of it when you graduate.</p>
<p>-USMMA Midshipmen are sent into war zones before they graduate. This is the only academy that does so. Hundreds of Kings Pointers have ferried supplies into the Iraqi Theater before they completed their Junior Year. </p>
<p>-Historically, during major conflicts Merchant Mariners suffer higher casualty rates than Naval Sailors.</p>
<p>-The first year at Kings Point is more academically difficult than the other Academies. You will have to fit in three semesters in one year and also fit in the requirements of being a plebe in the regiment. My son completed 54 credits in his first year. I believe that the intensity of this year is responsible for much of the attrition at the School.</p>
<p>-You find yourself in responsible positions sooner at Kings Point than elsewhere. Two days ago my 19 year old son was given responsibility of steering a 600 foot ship through the English Channel.</p>
<p>-Here are some reasons that USMMA graduate command high salaries;
--You might run a ship that is as large as an aircraft carrier with a crew of less than 40.
--You could be subject to a variable employment market and have the risk of being without work.
--You might work 100 hours per week
--You might have this kind of responsibility: Study</a> spells out high toll on city in LNG attack - The Boston Globe</p>
<p>-Many people in the Merchant Marine Reserve serve for 20 years while large numbers of Cadets and Midshipmen from the other Academies do 5 years and leave. (Have no statistics to back up this statement, this is just an impression that I get from personal acquaintances.)</p>
<p>-A USMMA Graduate has more career options than the other four academies combined.</p>
<p>ROTC;</p>
<p>-Marquette University in Milwaukee has a great set of ROTC programs. The School will give free room and board to full-time ROTC Students.</p>
<p>-Don’t go into an ROTC program with the intention of applying to a Service Academy. The Colonels and Commanders are just as proud of their programs as the personnel at the Academies; and they deserve to be proud of them. They want you to graduate from their program and won’t want someone who wants to leave after a year. </p>
<p>FINALLY;</p>
<p>Most of the academies will prepare you for a career that might send you to some godforsaken place or require you to be far from home for long periods of time. The best way to have a normal life and to still serve your country is the Coast Guard. You can be stationed near home and still fulfill your mission. Also, Coast Guard Aviators get more flight time that those of the other services. (But, my son doesn't listen to my advice on this and you probably won't either.)</p>
<p>Good Luck on your decision!!</p>
<p>"If you want to fly, KP has the same number of slots as Annapolis but 1/4 the number of graduates, you do the math."</p>
<p>A KP senior, two years ago, told me that all his relatives had graduated from Annapolis, it was a family tradition. He chose KP because he wanted to fly navy and KP gave him an almost sure chance of getting his desire. He has been a navy pilot since graduation.</p>
<p>Ok all...help! My son's (KP 11) best friend has received offers of appointment to CGA, USNA & KP. He is leaning towards KP and we want to make sure that we are giving him the best information. His desired goal is to eventually go into maritime security/homeland security/law enforcement with the Coast Guard. He is leaning towards KP due to the fact that there are so many options open to graduates. Any thoughts about what we can say to him to help make the decision easier?</p>
<p>This seems easy.....
If his goal is to be an officer in the Coast Guard then he should go to USCGA.</p>
<p>Tell him two words: Sea Year. He'll have the opportunity to see a little of how the CG works out there in the real world when he sails. Active duty GC coming out of KP have some good working experience under their belts & with it sometimes comes some great great opportunities.</p>
<p>Thanks Jamzmom. I agree and know that KP has many more options, but just wanted some more "ammo." </p>
<p>A friend who is a Coast Guard officer put it very well for me. "CGA prepares students to become USCG officers. Kings Point prepares students to be technical experts in a maritime discipline (deck or engine) that immediately makes a graduate valuable in a multitude of maritime, military and business sectors."</p>