<p>I'm starting to feel really torn between Notre Dame (NROTC 4yr scholarship) and USNA as my full appointment came in the mail last week.
I got into ND EA.
I understand the decision is ultimately my own, but I was wondering if any of you had any advice or perspectives from which I could benefit.</p>
<p>I am curious about how much of your Notre Dame tuition the NROTC scholarship covers. I have read everything I can, and it appears that it will not cover all of your tuition.</p>
<p>Aside from financial, and it's probably minor over the course of your lifetime unless you have to borrow then pay it back on a junior officer's pay, you need to know yourself and how well you would adapt to having your entire life supervised, starting this summer. If you go the ROTC route, you will gain some feel for the supervision in summer cruises etc. If you go the Naval Academy route, you will feel it all at once.</p>
<p>According to something I read recently, Academy vs. ROTC is a bigger deal in the Navy than in the Army.</p>
<p>I think you have to decide which side you want to sit on at the Navy v. Notre Dame game? Do you think you'll have regrets when you see the brigade as you sit on the notre dame side? or do you think it would be the other way around? As you said- it is your decision, and you have to weigh the benefits of both. Maybe try making a list (?).
Both are great schools, and both produce fine officers, but which would you rather tell your grandkids about? I know a girl from summer seminar who was in the same position- she went Notre Dame because she'd always loved it and it was easier for her to imagine herself there. It has always helped me to try and picture myself where I want to go, so I would suggest trying that. I hope this helped- good luck with your decision!</p>
<p>M, </p>
<p>In both USNA and ND you’ll get a great education, you’ll be part of a great institution with a long history of graduating young men and women that go on to lead successful careers. At the end of both choices you will receive your degree and your commission. You are fortunate to have the choice; something you should be proud of. </p>
<p>Consider what the two paths have in common and then look at where your college experience and opportunities will differ. Which path appeals to you and most fits with your career goals at this point in your life; obviously a very tough call given the number of years you have lived and how much of your life is ahead of you, but a consideration non the less. </p>
<p>Other factors to consider; if the degree you intend to pursue is available at both institutions; say Mech E or EE, there are really no consequences to your choice. If on the other hand you want to pursue a degree in a field that are truly drawn to; say Chemical Engineering, you can’t get a Chem E degree at the USNA, Chemistry yes, Chem E no. At the same time, if you are inclined to pursue a career in the Navy, attending the USNA is a great place to start. </p>
<p>I think it is very very difficult for an individual that has not been through the Naval academy to fully understand, appreciate and come any where close to comprehending, what it really means to be a part of such an institution. I certainly sympathize with your dilemma. Those of us on the outside are fortunate if we catch an occasional glimpse inside. I can speak to the side I chose; as in the ROTC path. My plan at that point in my life where you are now was the Air Force Academy and then onto NASA, unfortunately life doesn’t always follow the path you lay out. I ended up choosing ROTC instead as it became clear my mother wasn’t expected to live much past my high school graduation and I wanted the ability to spend as much time at home whenever possible. I decided instead to find an engineering school within easy driving distance of home and ended up on scholarship at RPI. </p>
<p>Given that experience I am fortunate in that I have my son to consider when I contrast my experience with what I understand about his. In a college ROTC program I had a great deal more freedom, got up when I wanted, went to class when I wanted, I wore a uniform two days a week, and spent some weeks over the summers of my sophomore and junior year experiencing “real military life”. Sounds like a good deal right? The best of both worlds? Not exactly. On the military side it’s sorta like comparing the demands of weekend warrior reservists with active duty personnel, (though that analogy has lost some of it’s relevance giving the extent we have used our reserves of late). You don’t train with the same intensity, and you don't come out the other end at the same level of military preparedness. I have no doubt you will be equally prepared academically regardless of your choice. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t put my freedom on the same level or assign the same value as the opportunities to experience the full breath of what is offered over the entirety of the 4-year program at the Naval Academy. When I look at my son since he reported in on I-day he has been in a military environment that provides him with amazing opportunities to gain experience and grow; and yes at the cost of his daily freedom. So what matters most to you? In my son’s case it’s a non-issue; most of the time he loves the place. He enjoys being challenged, pushed, especially on the physical side; at times his training staff doesn’t know what to do with him and some of his buddies because they “enjoy” the PT side of training. </p>
<p>Physical training is another part of the equation, another difference to consider in your two choices; physical condition and training is an integral part of the Academy, a key part of the environment and program. Within an ROTC program, your interaction on the service side is much more limited, physical condition and athletics will be largely left up to you. Same goes for leadership training, the exposure and training is more limited. </p>
<p>You’ve got two great choices to consider, take in as much information as you can about both and then pull it all together and decide, and don’t look back, just enjoy and make the most of whichever path you choose. Good luck.</p>
<p>I'm about to finish my freshman year at the NROTC unit at Notre Dame. I had the same decision to make last year, and I was unable to make it until about two days before the deadline. </p>
<p>You really can't go wrong. USNA is obviously a great place to commission from, and will give you ample opportunity for promotion during your career. We have probably the best known and most respected NROTC program in the country, and we have commissioned more naval officers than every other institution other than USNA.</p>
<p>To answer a question above, Yes the Navy covers full tuition. You must, however, pay for your own room and board. There is a very limited opportunity to live in the ROTC building for free after freshman year. </p>
<p>Mmartins, What do you want to do in the Navy/Marine Corps?</p>
<p>If you want to do spec war/spec ops, then I would strongly recommend that you go to USNA. We just don't have the program or the weather to train for that career path.</p>
<p>If you want swo, you probably want to go to USNA. USNA gives more hands on shipboard training before graduation, but you wont be far behind coming from ND.</p>
<p>If you want to fly, then I would say come here. We have about 95% of our 1st class get their first choice at service selection, and a lot of those are aviators. Also, if you are a marine option, you can get a spot in flight school as soon as sophomore year. Also, you could theoretically get to fly every summer here, while you wont be able to after freshman year at USNA.</p>
<p>If you want to be a Marine, I personally would recommend you come here. Marine options here are for the most part separated from the Navy options and immersed into the Marine Corps culture. Based on what I have heard from some friends at USNA, we pt a lot more. We PT pretty much every day. We take trips to Purdue, Texas and other universities for endurance competitions. We train at the local reserve center, and we are given very personal training time with our Gunnery Sgt and Major on a daily basis. We have never had a MIDN fail OCS, which is pretty impressive considering that OCS has about a 35% fail rate overall. </p>
<p>If you want to go Subs, then you could go either way. Most of our staff are sub guys, and we send a ton that way every year. </p>
<p>If you don't know what you want do do, then maybe USNA, because I'm pretty sure that they expose you to all parts of the Navy. We go to CORTRAMID after freshman year, where we see aviation, subs, swo and USMC in one summer. </p>
<p>As far as academics go, USNA definitely has us beat at engineering, but we are pretty strong in everything else. You would have a lot more freedom to pick what classes you want here, and most importantly for me, you have the ability to study anywhere in the world for a year or semester on the Navy's dime. USNA also has study abroad programs, but theirs are more competitive and limited.</p>
<p>Hey Dan -</p>
<p>What's college life like at ND? What do you think of the dorms, EC's, sports, food, etc. Do you have time to do IM sports? Do you have friends outside of NROTC? Does ND love it's ROTC students?</p>
<p>I have heard really good things but I'd like your opinion if you don't mind.</p>
<p>Thanks much.</p>
<p>Of all of the NROTC grads I served with, the "Domers" and the Penn State guys seemed to "click" better with USNA grads than anybody else. I went to ND for the '83 version of "Notre Dame beats Navy", and the people were fantastic.</p>
<p>I'm still in close touch with several ND guys I flew with, or who are mutual acquaintances/friends with other classmates. It doesn't feel a whole lot different to me - except for about a week per year around the football game.</p>
<p>Great tradition, great school and I'm sure everyone knows about the Navy keeping ND afloat during WWII when ND students went off to fight in the war. The Navy used ND as an officer training location and kept ND from going under. Big time bonds between the two schools.</p>
<p>You "have to want to be" at USNA, so my unsolicited advice is that you ought to consider carefully what your choice is. If you're worried about whether being an ND grad will make you less competitive "by pedigree", then I think you might be surprised to learn that it doesn't matter where you earned your commission - honestly. Performance in the Fleet or Corps is what matters most. Any advantage that USNA gives you will probably be over by the time you finish Flight School/SWOS, etc., and hit your first ship/squadron/unit.</p>
<p>"According to something I read recently, Academy vs. ROTC is a bigger deal in the Navy than in the Army."</p>
<p>Granny: That is interesting. Would you mind sharing your source document with me?</p>
<p>IMO, the issue comes down to whether you want mostly military with a little college thrown in or mostly college with a little military thrown in. And, no, I'm not joking. </p>
<p>At USNA, you are in the military all the time. You wear uniforms every day. You march several times every week. You have room inspections. You stand watch. You eat at a squad table. You have come-arounds every day. You have rates to memorize every day. You do chow calls. You have no car. You have minimal liberty (especially in the first couple of years). You have a limited number of majors.</p>
<p>At any civilian school with NROTC, you live like a civilian most of the time. You wear civilian clothes except for one day a week. You live in a dorm. You go to parties. You can come and go as you please. You do your once a week military obligations and your summer obligations. </p>
<p>Both graduate as Ensigns/2nd LTs -- but there are very different paths to getting there. One is not necessarily "better" than the other -- it's a matter of personal preference. But consider which path is more aligned with what you want for the next four years.</p>
<p>^^^^ That's it, and well said, as usual. I made the same choice. Harvard on an NROTC scholarship thru MIT, or Navy? I figured that at Navy, I was like everyone else in uniform, not playing at being in the Navy a day or two a week, and having to explain ad nauseam why I wanted to be a Naval Officer. </p>
<p>It was the early 80's, Viet Nam was still fresh in everyone's minds, and there was anti-military bias that you can only imagine today. I figured that the environment would have been much more supportive at Navy - duh - and that the Navy training would be better than ROTC training. Yes, it would have been nice to have a Harvard diploma, but I doubt I'd have the same circle of close friends and experiences, and I'm probably prouder of my USNA sheepskin than I would be of my Harvard diploma.</p>
<p>PS - Army-Navy kicks the crap out of "The Game" - as they refer to the annual football tilt between Harvard and Yale. ;)</p>
<p>That's great ^^^ so now you get to explain ad nauseum why you turned down Harvard for USNA.</p>
<p>Thank you for your service either way. Are you career or did you do the minimal requirement?</p>
<p>"The Game" was great this year!</p>
<p>LOL. Too true. I do get "YOU got into Harvard? Geesh, I thought they were selective?" comments from time to time. Or, "Man, you are bone stupid." ;)</p>
<p>I was a nine-year guy. I got to the edge of "fish or cut bait" land, and I didn't like what I saw over the "rim". Too much sea duty, and with BRAC, and the administration in power at the time, I was a little nervous about the future of the military and my community (more specifically). Family separation was my ultimate deciding factor. I opted for CIVLANT and went right into the reserves - which I loved. All the flying and none of the BS. I'm still "serving" as a BGO.</p>
<p>I meant no disrespect to "The Game", Harvard, Yale, or Ivy League alums in general, and no animals were harmed in the writing of my comments, nor do they reflect the official views of USNA, the Navy or the United States Government, etc. ;)</p>
<p>Re: NROTC and what it pays... my S got the NROTC at ND too and it says someplace in his paperwork (tons of that) that the scholarship will pay full tuition, books to $900 and some fees, plus the stipend. </p>
<p>It's a really hard choice. S is told go to the Acad - you'll love it, and then he's told, go to ND - it's like no other place. Good luck in your decision.</p>
<p>mmartins-</p>
<p>it's a blessing and a curse to have such great choices before you!
A blessing because you have two really great options-
A curse because you can only pick one!</p>
<p>Son was in the same boat not that long ago-
what helped him was the overnight stays-
that, and really coming to terms on what he wanted to do.
For him, USNA won out- abet, with a year of prep attached!
But out of the civilian schools he applied to, what I will say is that ND stood apart in its support for the NRTOC program there- it was outstanding.</p>
<p>If you have not done an overnight at each, do try- it will give you a better sense of each place, and how you see yourself fitting in. And it is a more rational approach then thinking about what side of the football stadium you want to be sitting on.</p>
<p>Anyway, best of luck!
Love the Irish- (and they do have an awesome cafeteria!)
But SOOOOO GLAD it was "All Blue and Gold" this past year!!!!</p>
<p>Notre Dame and USNA seem to be common acceptances to a lot of those aspiring to become Naval Officers in some capacity due to their traditional nature. I found myself in your position two years ago and ultimately chose USNA for a few reasons.</p>
<p>First of all, the only civilians you come into contact when you are at USNA are largely only professors. It gives you that four year advantage of being around military personnel before getting to the fleet. At a civilian school, you have your NROTC unit commanders and military instuctors, but you are living a different life style. NROTC is often called the "civilian" way to be commissioned. I don't downgrade ROTC at all, it's just that if you're a glutton for punishment like me, choose USNA because the road less traveled often takes you to better places.</p>
<p>Speaking of better places, those who want to make the Navy a career often choose USNA because they think it will benefit them in a selection board when going for promotions. I don't know how much merit that has, but most of our CNO's are grads. I was looking at a magazine called "Shipmate" and saw a very large portion (at least 35-40%) of the flag officers in the Navy are grads. This argument was not part of my reasoning to come here.</p>
<p>I came to USNA versus ND or Tulane largely because everyone is the same and everyone has the same opportunities. In class, you don't know if someone's rich or has a disadvantaged background. It really doesn't enter your mind. All you know is that they are struggling along with you toward the same common goal. We're graded by our peers and those who lead us. It causes us to be constantly on guard to act in a military manner.</p>
<p>I'm not going to promote either option in fact it's largely a matter of what you prefer. The dilemma between structure versus freedom is at the very center of the issue.</p>