<p>glad columbia and Rice moved up.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So UC-Berkeley is a better engineering school that Cal Tech? Really?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well the differences are quite small. But, basically, yeah, I would say that Berkeley is a slightly better engineering school than is Caltech. Keep in mind that Caltech freely admits that it is more of a pure science school than an engineering school. </p>
<p>But the rankings don't fully capture just how desirable a particular school is for a prospective student. For example, one of THE most annoying aspects of Berkeley is the notion of the impacted major: some majors, including ALL of the engineering majors, have fewer available spaces than there are interested students. If you go to Caltech intending to major in a science and then decide once you're there that you'd rather major in engineering instead, you just go right ahead and switch. Nobody is going to stop you. Not so at Berkeley. Plenty of Berkeley students who decide they want to switch into engineering are denied from doing so. The reverse is also true: if you are a Berkeley engineering student and you decide that you want to switch into something else, you may be prevented from doing so because the individual non-engineering colleges at Berkeley may decide that they don't want to take you. The same is true even if you want to switch from one engineering major to another. If you come in as a ME student and decide that you'd rather major in EECS, you have to apply to switch, and you may not be approved. Hence, plenty of Berkeley students end up in majors that they don't really want. </p>
<p>In fairness to Berkeley, it should be said that Berkeley is not the only school with impacted majors. Plenty of other schools have the same problem. But the key takeaway is that Caltech does not. As a Caltech student, you can choose any major you want and switch at any time.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
Why is Caltech top 4 overall if the only subcategory it is actually top 4 in is Physics? I know it's probably some statistical anomaly but that doesn't seem right. I mean, their average position in the ones they actually rank in is 7.3, and they don't even rank in 3 of the categories.
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>Because rankings are silly.</p>
<p>Can anyone please post the entire list for undergraduate computer engineering/science (I was wondering where PSU was placed)?</p>
<p>Also, does anyone have a link to last year's ranking so we can compare to see which schools moved?</p>
<p>
[quote]
So UC-Berkeley is a better engineering school that Cal Tech? Really?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The engineering ranking only looks at peer assessment, which Berkeley always scores high in. If you look at overall rankings, Berkeley's peer assessment is 4.8, but it's overall ranking is around 20 or so. If the overall rankings only use peer assessment like the engineering ranking, then Berkeley would be above Penn, Duke, Caltech, Columbia, Chicago, and almost every other school. </p>
<p>Berkeley's overall peer assessment beats Caltech's by an even greater margin than the engineering ranking, but Caltech has always ranked above Berkeley overall. The USNWR engineering ranking uses a methodology very favorable to Berkeley. It doesn't mean Berkeley engineering is better.</p>
<p>Yeah, the undergrad computer science list would be great.</p>
<p>or just the entire undergrad computer engineering...</p>
<p>The undergraduate computer engineering ranking is up and sadly PSU isn't on the list. :(</p>
<p>There's no undergraduate ranking for Computer Science.</p>
<p>The entire list for each specialty was posted, if it stopped at a certain number, that's because that's all there is to that particular ranking.</p>
<p>How come CS isn't considered an engineering discipline?</p>
<p>sang54: it probably is...in my school (UCLA) and many others CS falls directly under the college of engineering and is often paired with EE.</p>
<p>"Berkeley's overall peer assessment beats Caltech's by an even greater margin than the engineering ranking, but Caltech has always ranked above Berkeley overall. The USNWR engineering ranking uses a methodology very favorable to Berkeley. It doesn't mean Berkeley engineering is better."</p>
<p>Yeah but isn't this kind of an "in the eye of the beholder" type-thing? I mean, that is why rankings carry weight- there isn't really a way to measure, say, the teaching ability/quality of a specific faculty or how much the average student will really learn at _____ program. The only way to really do this would be if the same individual could experience each school's engineering curriculum simultaneously and judge which program he or she felt had best taught and prepared him or her - and obviously this is impossible. </p>
<p>But even THIS method would be biased because the "quality" of a school (or anything really, for that matter) is generally something that is pretty subjective (i.e. different learning styles and systems will work better for different students). Relatively speaking then, if Berkeley tends to be more universally well regarded, than I think that it's fair to call it the "better" school. If everyone thinks you're a criminal- then you're a criminal. Even if you aren't. (Translation: since quality is subjective, and subjective opinion holds that Berkeley is a better engineering school, then it is. Even if it's not.)</p>
<p>I would say that Berkeley is probably a 'better' engineering school than is Caltech, under the myriad ways that you could define 'better'. For example, Berkeley probably has better ties to engineering employers, has more extensive engineering resources, and has a stronger engineering brand name. These all connote to its being 'better' from an engineering standpoint.</p>
<p>But that's not to say that that necessarily makes Berkeley a better school to attend for engineering. Berkeley may be a better school to graduate from but not necessarily to actually attend. There's a subtle difference there. Like I said before, the major problem with Berkeley engineering (and other engineering programs, but not Caltech's) is that you can't freely change engineering majors. You can't just come in as, say, a ME student and then simply decide that you'd rather switch over to EECS. It's not that simple. You have to approved to switch over, and that is far from automatic. Plenty of people don't get approved and are therefore stuck in majors that they don't want. </p>
<p>So, sure, I agree, if you come into Berkeley as an ME student, and you never want to change, then you're probably better off than if you had gone to Caltech. But what if you do want to change? In particular, what if you want to change and are denied?</p>
<p>Hey sakky- great points, and something to keep in mind for any potential engineering student.</p>
<p>Which begs the idiot's query: what other prominent universities are going to have impacted majors? I'm assuming that this problematic pattern would lend itself to the public schools - and thus places like Michigan, UVA, Cal, Chapel Hill, Texas, UCLA, etc. are all going to suffer from this malady. But does this umbrella cover ALL of the public schools, or just those with stronger programs? Are any private universities affected?</p>
<p>So, there are no CS rankings then? That's sad : (</p>
<p>
[quote]
But does this umbrella cover ALL of the public schools, or just those with stronger programs?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that it would include ALL of the public schools. After all, there are literally hundreds and hundreds of public schools out there. I'm quite sure that among that set, there has to be some that don't have issues with impaction.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Are any private universities affected?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>To some extent, yes. For example, I know that Cornell does not allow free movement between individual colleges/schools. For example, you can't get into the Cornell Arts & Sciences College and then just decide one fine day that you're going to switch to the Cornell College of Engineering. You have to apply to transfer between colleges, and the approval process is competitive. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, I think Berkeley is a quite extreme case as not only does it restrict movement between college to college, but, in the case of engineering, Berkeley also restricts movement * from major to major*. Other schools may restrict movement into their engineering college, but once you're into the engineering college, they usually won't restrict switching from one engineering major to another. </p>
<p>The takehome point is that people should carefully investigate just how much flexibility you will have at any particular college. You don't want to end up in a situation where you may be forced to stay in a major that you don't want. Or at least, if that might happen, then you should know that that might happen and then plan accordingly.</p>
<p>Yeah I didn't assume it would affect all publics nationwide- just the ones with top-flight engineering schools (although I guess I included a few schools in my quick list that don't match that criteria, i.e. UNC).</p>
<p>Smaller Schools should be acknowledged as well.</p>
<p>Here are USNWR list for those schools where no graduate (or minimal graduate) program exists:</p>
<p>Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs
(At schools whose highest degree is a bachelor's or master's)
Rank/School Peer
assessment
score
( 5.0 = highest)
1. Harvey Mudd College (CA) 4.5
1. Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. (IN) 4.5
3. Cooper Union (NY) 4.2
4. Cal PolySan Luis Obispo * 4.0
5. United States Military Academy (NY)* 3.9
5. United States Naval Academy (MD)* 3.9
7. Bucknell University (PA) 3.8
7. United States Air Force Acad. (CO)* 3.8
9. Embry Riddle Aeronautical U. (FL) 3.6
9. Villanova University (PA) 3.6
11. Kettering University (MI) 3.4
11. Lafayette College (PA) 3.4
11. Milwaukee School of Engineering 3.4
11. Swarthmore College (PA) 3.4
11. United States Coast Guard Acad. (CT)* 3.4
16. Calif. State Poly. Univ.Pomona * 3.3
16. Rowan University (NJ)* 3.3
16. San Jose State University (CA)* 3.3
16. Union College (NY) 3.3
20. Baylor University (TX) 3.2
20. Bradley University (IL) 3.2
20. Embry Riddle Aeronautical U.Prescott (AZ) 3.2
20. Santa Clara University (CA) 3.2
20. Valparaiso University (IN) 3.2
25. Gonzaga University (WA) 3.1
25. Loyola Marymount University (CA) 3.1
25. Smith College (MA) 3.1
25. Univ. of Colo.Colorado Springs * 3.1
25. University of San Diego 3.1
25. Virginia Military Institute * 3.1
31. California State U.Los Angeles * 3.0
31. St. Louis University 3.0
31. Trinity University (TX) 3.0
31. U.S. Merchant Marine Acad. (NY)* 3.0
31. University of MichiganDearborn * 3.0
31. University of Portland (OR) 3.0
31. Webb Institute (NY) 3.0
38. Boise State University (ID)* 2.9
38. California State U.Northridge * 2.9
38. The Citadel (SC)* 2.9
38. Manhattan College (NY) 2.9
38. Mercer University (GA) 2.9
38. Miami UniversityOxford (OH)* 2.9
38. Northern Arizona University * 2.9
38. University of Detroit Mercy 2.9
38. University of MinnesotaDuluth * 2.9
47. California State U.Long Beach * 2.8
47. California State U.Sacramento * 2.8
47. Calvin College (MI) 2.8
47. Indiana U.-Purdue U.Fort Wayne * 2.8
47. Ohio Northern University 2.8
47. Penn StateErie, Behrend Col. * 2.8
47. Purdue UniversityCalumet (IN)* 2.8
47. Seattle University 2.8
47. Trinity College (CT) 2.8
47. University of St. Thomas (MN) 2.8
57. Cedarville University (OH) 2.7
57. Hofstra University (NY) 2.7
57. Oregon Inst. of Technology * 2.7
57. Texas Christian University 2.7
57. Univ. of ArkansasLittle Rock * 2.7
57. Univ. of MassachusettsDartmouth * 2.7
57. University of the Pacific (CA) 2.7
57. Univ. of WisconsinPlatteville * 2.7
65. California Maritime Academy * 2.6
65. California State U.Fullerton * 2.6
65. College of New Jersey * 2.6
65. Colorado State UniversityPueblo * 2.6
65. Fairleigh Dickinson Univ. (NJ) 2.6
65. Grove City College (PA) 2.6
65. Hampton University (VA) 2.6
65. LeTourneau University (TX) 2.6
65. Minnesota State UniversityMankato * 2.6
65. New York Inst. of Technology 2.6
65. Northern Illinois University * 2.6
65. Norwich University (VT) 2.6
65. Pennsylvannia State U.Harrisburg * 2.6
65. Roger Williams University (RI) 2.6
65. St. Cloud State University (MN)* 2.6
65. Tuskegee University (AL) 2.6
65. University of AlaskaAnchorage * 2.6
65. University of Hartford (CT) 2.6
65. Western New England College (MA) 2.6
65. West Virginia U. Inst. of Tech. * 2.6
65. Widener University (PA) 2.6
65. Youngstown State University (OH)* 2.6
87. California State Univ.Chico * 2.5
87. Fairfield University (CT) 2.5
87. Grand Valley State University (MI)* 2.5
87. Humboldt State University (CA)* 2.5
87. Maine Maritime Academy * 2.5
87. Monmouth University (NJ) 2.5
87. North Carolina A&T State Univ. * 2.5
87. SUNYMaritime College * 2.5
87. Tri-State University (IN) 2.5
87. Univ. of MissouriSt. Louis * 2.5
87. University of North Florida * 2.5
87. Univ. of TennesseeChattanooga * 2.5
87. University of WisconsinStout * 2.5
87. Wentworth Inst. of Technology (MA) 2.5</p>
<p>*Undergraduate engineering specialties:
Chemical<a href="At%20schools%20whose%20highest%20degree%20is%20a%20bachelor's%20or%20master's">/B</a>
Methodology
1 Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. (IN)
2 Rowan University (NJ)
3 Cooper Union (NY)
4 Bucknell University (PA)
5 University of MinnesotaDuluth *
6 Manhattan College (NY)</p>
<p>*Undergraduate engineering specialties:
Civil<a href="At%20schools%20whose%20highest%20degree%20is%20a%20bachelor's%20or%20master's">/B</a>
Methodology
1 Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. (IN)
2 United States Military Academy (NY)
3 Bucknell University (PA)
4 Cal PolySan Luis Obispo *
5 Cooper Union (NY)
5 Harvey Mudd College (CA)
7 Bradley University (IL)
7 Lafayette College (PA)
7 United States Air Force Acad. (CO)*
7 Virginia Military Institute *
11 Manhattan College (NY)
11 Rowan University (NJ)*
11 The Citadel (SC)*</p>
<p>*Undergraduate engineering specialties:
Computer Engineering<a href="At%20schools%20whose%20highest%20degree%20is%20a%20bachelor's%20or%20master's">/B</a>
Methodology
1 Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. (IN)
2 Harvey Mudd College (CA)
3 Cal PolySan Luis Obispo *
4 Cooper Union (NY)
5 San Jose State University (CA)
6 Bucknell University (PA)
6 Valparaiso University (IN)</p>
<p>*Undergraduate engineering specialties:
Electrical / Electronic / Communications<a href="At%20schools%20whose%20highest%20degree%20is%20a%20bachelor's%20or%20master's">/B</a>
Methodology
1 Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. (IN)
2 Cooper Union (NY)
3 Cal PolySan Luis Obispo *
3 Harvey Mudd College (CA)
5 United States Naval Academy (MD)
6 Bucknell University (PA)
7 United States Military Academy (NY)*
8 Rowan University (NJ)*
8 United States Air Force Acad. (CO)*
10 San Jose State University (CA)*
11 Bradley University (IL)
11 Union College (NY)
11 Valparaiso University (IN)
14 Gonzaga University (WA)
14 Lafayette College (PA)
14 Manhattan College (NY)</p>
<p>*Undergraduate engineering specialties:
Mechanical<a href="At%20schools%20whose%20highest%20degree%20is%20a%20bachelor's%20or%20master's">/B</a>
Methodology
1 Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. (IN)
2 Cooper Union (NY)
3 Cal PolySan Luis Obispo *
3 Kettering University (MI)
5 Bucknell University (PA)
6 Harvey Mudd College (CA)
7 United States Military Academy (NY)
8 United States Naval Academy (MD)*
9 Rowan University (NJ)*
10 Bradley University (IL)
11 Lafayette College (PA)
11 Manhattan College (NY)
13 Gonzaga University (WA)
13 Swarthmore College (PA)</p>
<p>cheezwhiz, Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology is at the top of that list, but I haven't been able to locate the entire thing ...</p>