<p>Think of it like this:</p>
<p>Brown edged out Rice and Notre Dame, and was just barely beat by Johns Hopkins and Cornell.</p>
<p>11 Washington University in St Louis </p>
<p>12 Northwestern University </p>
<p>13 Cornell University </p>
<p>13 John Hopkins University </p>
<p>15 Brown University </p>
<p>17 Rice University </p>
<p>18 University of Notre Dame</p>
<p>18 Vanderbilt University </p>
<p>20 Emory University </p>
<p>I say thats pretty good company, although in its own company, the Ivy League, it comes in last at 8th.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I remember walking by the Wharton building with one of my Penn friends and he pointed to it and said, "thats why the college of arts and sciences is crumbling."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I would love to see the rubric for success that shows Penn's College is 'crumbling'...</p>
<p>
[quote]
the point is that Wharton does a lot to help all of Penn's rep, but maybe takes away from or misrepresents the regular college.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>True, but at the same time, SEAS does a lot to hurt Penn's rep. I always imagined that the two cancelled each other out and Penn's College would genuinely reflect the balanced middle of the two reputations.</p>
<p>Does anyone even know how they come up with these things?</p>
<p>Do they attend each program at each school take each class live there for four years, etc?</p>
<p>Point is, can this truly measure anything?</p>
<p>Are students happier at other places? Are they happier with their jobs (higher paying or not)? More pleased with their education? Care?</p>
<p>Point is, these things are all meaningless except as a very general guide when initially looking for schools.</p>
<p>Funny,</p>
<p>I am getting bashed for saying Brown is equally good as Penn by these Penn kids. WOW. Penn is crazily overranked and Brown crazily underranked. That is why I care, I hate when people think a school is better than another based on rank and choose for these reasons. 5% of the kids out there might actually think Penn is better and choose Penn for that reason, which I think is a tragedy. Especially given how in the long run it makes zero difference and also the fact that rankings are absolutely ephemeral and have been proven to change drastically. </p>
<p>Meltingsnow, that is good company but its not Brown's company. Brown's company is Duke, Dartmouth, Columbia, Penn, Caltech and it deserves to be ranked there.</p>
<p><em>sigh</em> It doesn't matter. Forget these ranks. Point is, doesn't matter where I go, I can probably still own you :) jk</p>
<p>USNews is more a problem for the applicants who take it seriously (and it is not a inconsiderable number) as well as for the admissions offices. </p>
<p>I will point out that it was only 10 or so years ago that Penn had an ED acceptance rate in the low sixties. Rodin has done a good job improving the image since. However, Penn would stand to benefit if it were to 1. revise its' core and 2. integrate Wharton more fully into the CAS. Wharton and our generation being where it is, has helped Penn as well. Though Stetson's heavy reliance on ED, imo hurts the resulting class quality.</p>
<p>Here's the bright side: lower rank -> less prestige -> fewer applicants -> better chances for ME :)</p>
<p>This is obviously flawed logic, but it's nice to imagine.</p>
<p>I agree with Slipper,
it is hard to imagine that Brown would be last in the Ivies. The sorted rumor was always that Penn was the last stop in the Ivies. Although, I suppose it is possible that both Penn and Cornell have seriousl improved in the last few years.</p>
<p>Anyhow, I like Brown and would choose it after Dartmouth and Princeton, but before Penn and Cornell.</p>
<p>Why the heck are you people arguing about rankings? They mean nothing. They're just fun to look at, and laugh about. Not much more.</p>
<p>Also, saying things like "no one legitimate thinks Penn is better than Brown" is just fooling yourself. Truth is, many people think Penn is better than Brown, and many people also think Brown is better than Penn. You want to know why? Because ultimately it all boils down to OPINION AND PERSONAL PREFERENCE! Whether it's the views of the USNews editors, the professors who rate other schools, or some friends you're hanging out with who tell you Wharton is making SAS crumble, it all boils down to everyone's individual perception. You can't objectively plop down a numerical score on a school and actually expect it to mean much.</p>
<p>Why are we even arguing this? Penn<Brown, Brown<Penn? Heck, at least we are fortunate enough to attend an Ivy. Think about all of the folks who would give their first-born child to go to one of the Ivies. I think we've all lost perspective of everything. Well, that's my 2 cents.</p>
<p>All I am saying is Brown = Penn</p>
<p>What I dont get is how and why Cornell edged out Brown. And its behind JHU as well. Brown is seriously underranked, it's a travesty.</p>
<p><em>shrug</em> I'm always said there's no difference in the top 25, because whichever of those schools is the best emotional/academic/social fit for YOU is #1 for YOU.</p>
<p>"the sorted rumor was always that Penn was the last stop in the Ivies"-- It's a reputation left over mainly from the late 70s thru the 80s, when the city of Philadelphia (like most cities in the US, but very publicly) was struggling with a recession & crime. Even in the past 10-15 years, the steps that have been taken to improve Penn both in facilities, academic structure, social structure, and safety have given it a huge, and in my opinion, a well deserved boost in reputation.</p>
<p>That, along with several important changes- such as the school's desire to accept a large part of the class ED in order to make sure students are passionate about the school (and, secondarily, thus increasing yield), has moved it up in the rankings. Since the US news is calculated based on actual numbers (though the catagories are somewhat arbitrary) I find it hard to accept the notion that Penn is overrated on this particular list that should have no actual value towards anyone's choice on where to attend school.</p>
<p>I'm not saying Penn is Better than Brown, it just happens to better fit the arbitrary (but methodically caltculated) catagories on this stupid list.</p>
<p>USNews rankings are such bs. IT's sad that people place so much importance on these rankings. I can't believe Stanford and UChicago are ranked as low as they are.</p>
<p>Almost EVERY SINGLE Ivy League school is condemning Penn at the moment. Some of the comments are actually getting very terse with certain expletives. As a Dukie, I fear that we are next.</p>
<p>Tell 'em Devil...:)</p>
<p>LOL My comrades and I are ready! :)</p>
<p>But in all seriousness, put MIT and CIT just in front of us and Penn and we are golden. Let Duke and Penn be tied for 7th or something. Maybe put Columbia in front of us too. Then...put Brown tied with Dartmouth or something.</p>
<p>Exactly! They all say rankings don't matter, but then turn around and explode because Brown drops in the rankings, etc... They need make up their minds what they actually believe in.</p>
<p>Why do that when hypocrisy is so much easier?</p>