USNWR 2009: Looking at the Data XV (Avg. ACT Scores & 25/75)

College Search & Selection
1

<p>The publication of the 2009 USNWR College Rankings provides an opportunity to compare schools based on a wide variety of data points. In this and in other threads, I urge the reader to think less about the absolute rankings and more about the nature and value-added of the data point being discussed.</p>

<p>ACT Average , ACT 25th - ACT 75th , National University</p>

<p>33.5 , 32 - 35 , Caltech
33 , 31 - 35 , Harvard</p>

<p>32.5 , 31 - 34 , MIT
32.5 , 31 - 34 , U Penn
32.5 , 31 - 34 , Notre Dame
32 , 30 - 34 , Princeton
32 , 30 - 34 , Yale
32 , 30 - 34 , Columbia
32 , 30 - 34 , Northwestern</p>

<p>31.5 , 29 - 34 , Duke
31.5 , 29 - 34 , Dartmouth
31.5 , 30 - 33 , Wash U
31.5 , 29 - 34 , Rice
31 , 29 - 33 , Stanford
31 , 29 - 33 , Emory
31 , 29 - 33 , Vanderbilt
31 , 30 - 32 , Tufts</p>

<p>30.5 , 28 - 33 , U Chicago
30.5 , 28 - 33 , Johns Hopkins
30.5 , 28 - 33 , Brown
30.5 , 29 - 32 , Georgetown
30 , 28 - 32 , Cornell
30 , 28 - 32 , Carnegie Mellon
30 , 28 - 32 , USC
30 , 28 - 32 , Brandeis
30 , 28 - 32 , Boston Coll</p>

<p>29.5 , 27 - 32 , W&M
29.5 , 28 - 31 , NYU
29 , 27 - 31 , U Michigan
29 , 27 - 31 , Wake Forest
29 , 27 - 31 , Georgia Tech
29 , 27 - 31 , U Rochester
29 , 27 - 31 , Tulane</p>

<p>28.5 , 26 - 31 , U North Carolina
28.5 , 26 - 31 , U Illinois
28.5 , 26 - 31 , Case Western
28 , 26 - 30 , U Wisconsin</p>

<p>27.5 , 24 - 31 , UCLA
27 , 25 - 29 , Rensselaer
27 , 25 - 29 , U Florida
27 , 23 - 31 , Yeshiva</p>

<p>26 , 23 - 29 , UCSD
26 , 23 - 29 , U Washington
26 , 23 - 29 , UC Santa Barbara
26 , 23 - 29 , U Texas</p>

<p>23.5 , 20 - 27 , UC Davis</p>

<p>na , na - na , Penn State
na , na - na , UC Berkeley
na , na - na , U Virginia
na , na - na , Lehigh
na , na - na , UC Irvine</p>

<p>ACT Average , ACT 25th - ACT 75th , LAC</p>

<p>31.5 , 29 - 34 , Amherst
31.5 , 29 - 34 , Pomona
31 , 29 - 33 , Williams
31 , 29 - 33 , Middlebury
31 , 29 - 33 , Bowdoin
31 , 29 - 33 , Carleton
31 , 29 - 33 , Claremont McK
31 , 29 - 33 , Grinnell</p>

<p>30.5 , 29 - 32 , Wellesley
30.5 , 29 - 32 , Vassar
30.5 , 29 - 32 , Colgate
30 , 27 - 33 , Swarthmore
30 , 28 - 32 , Davidson
30 , 28 - 32 , Macalester</p>

<p>29.5 , 27 - 32 , Wesleyan
29.5 , 28 - 31 , W&L
29.5 , 27 - 32 , Oberlin
29.5 , 28 - 31 , Colby </p>

<p>28 , 26 - 30 , Bryn Mawr</p>

<p>27.5 , 25 - 30 , US Military Acad
27.5 , 25 - 30 , Smith</p>

<p>na , na - na , Haverford
na , na - na , Harvey Mudd
na , na - na , Hamilton
na , na - na , US Naval Acad
na , na - na , Bates</p>

2

<p>hawkette,</p>

<p>Penn's numbers are for admitted students (you can use web archive to verify that's the case). Their actual range is 29-33 according to collegeboard.com. Penn gave USN stats of admitted students (SAT also).</p>

3

<p>Some of these schools have a minority of their students taking/submitting the ACT, which means they may not be wholly representative of the student body at large. They're probably not way off, but it's a caveat when making comparisons or judging one's chances if scores are on the cusp.</p>

4

<p>
[quote]
Penn's numbers are for admitted students (you can use web archive to verify that's the case). Penn gave USN stats of admitted students (SAT also).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Penn did say which now? And USNews used these numbers anyway? Is this something you found through your own checking, or did USNews footnote this?</p>

5

<p>I am not surprised if private universities report scores of admitted students rather than those of enrolled students. And they superscore in the case of the SAT. </p>

<p>Hawkette, there seems to be different years are represented. For example, Brown's stats you listed above are for the 2008-2009 Freshman class whereas Michigan's are for the 2007-2008 Freshman class. For the 2007-2008 class, Brown's Mid 50% ACT range was 27-33 and average was 30. </p>

<p>Also, there is something fishy about Notre Dame's ACT range. It looks like the admitted range, not the enrolled range.</p>

6

<p>hoedown,</p>

<p>Put Penn</a> Admissions: Incoming Class Profile into <a href="http://www.archive.org/index.php;%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.archive.org/index.php;&lt;/a> you'll get the profile of last year's admitted students. The numbers are exactly what you see on US News. USN uses whatever schools supply to them. They don't have the time and resource to validate. It's up to schools to send them the correct into. Schools can cheat if they want to.</p>

7

<p>I can't get the archived page to come up, but that's really interesting. We have never before looked at anyone else's data closely, but this year some outside attention to Michigan's move to 26th forced us to take a keener interest in what and how our peers report. If this is true, I'll add it to the ever-growing pile of "Wow, that isn't how we thought schools were doing it."</p>

8

<p>Hoedown:</p>

<p>My general rule: any college that fails to publish its common data set IS fudging numbers.</p>

9

<p>In looking up some data, I saw where Penn's class only had ACT scores from 30% of the students, so this underscores my point about not getting the complete picture for some of these schools.</p>

10

<p>hoedown, sorry, try this Internet</a> Archive: Wayback Machine</p>

11

<p>All of the data that I am providing above (and in the USWNR threads that I have created) is taken directly from USNWR's online edition for the most recently released edition of the USWNR rankings (2009 edition). </p>

<p>As for the issue of % of students that have taken a certain test or not, there will be variances at every school. Some believe that the ACT gives a better overall picture due to no superscoring.</p>

12

<p>^just in case it's not clear to some, USN 2009 edition is showing stats for class of 2011. that's why i posted the link for web archive so people can find class of 2011 stats for Penn (their current page is showing stats for the <em>admitted</em> class of 2012).</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
My general rule: any college that fails to publish its common data set IS fudging numbers.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Preaching to the choir here. The stats for Duke and Penn will forever be suspicious, in my mind. Some of us apparently don't have the gall to be able to air our dirty laundry in public.</p>

<p>Speaking of Duke, where is EAD these days? Those were some fun times.</p>

14

<p>There are more recent numbers available for SC on their website. In the admissions section is a complete profile of the freshmen class just enrolled in 2008. Included are the ethnic profile, statistical profile, number of applicants (35,900), international students and National Merit Scholars (244). Listed was the middle 50% ACT composite score 28-33. The international students most represented are from China.</p>

15

<p>^great page. it's how data should be presented!</p>

<p>128 full-tuition
332 half-tuition
117 quarter-tuition</p>

<p>Holy *****! Where do they get the money for that many merit-based scholarhips?</p>

16

<p>Sam,
Thank you. Have you heard the term "Trojan Family"? Dr. Sample is an incredible fundraiser and the alumni are loyal and generous. On another thread there is a listing of amounts raised by universities last year. I believe SC was fourth on that list.
It also helps to have George Lucas donate $175 million. The alumni clubs donate scholarships to local students as well as hundreds of scholarships given by individuals.</p>

17

<p>Sam:</p>

<p>'SC has been chasing NMSF's for decades and it works for them. They (almost) care more about test scores than gpa.</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
Trojan Family

[/quote]

What's that? A condom variety pack? ;)</p>

19

<p>Blue,
Where is the data to back up this comment? For the Schools of Music, Theatre and Cinematic Arts test scores are not as important as talent, creativity and audition/portfolio.<br>
I just attended an admissions information reception. According to the Admissions Officer the most important factor is the difficulty of the courseload and then there are a variety of factors involved including GPA, test scores, ECs, school attended and quality of the essay. Other considerations are location of applicant, talents, challenges encountered etc.</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
Some believe that the ACT gives a better overall picture due to no superscoring.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, these "some" people should be cognizant of the fact that when the test is only submitted by a minority of kids, it may not be representative of the class. Particularly if there are important correlates to test taking patterns, such as geography or type of high school. If only 30% of the students submitted ACT, what if there is something else about those students that makes them different from their SAT-taking peers?</p>

<p>It's an issue with the SAT, too, of course. And it's an issue even if most students take it--but I think it's true that the smaller the number of test submitters relative to the overall class, the more caution is warranted.</p>

<p>I believe this is why USNews elects to report (on its main page, and in its rankings) the test for which there are the largest number of submitters. Colleges submit BOTH, USNews publishes the one that is more common on that campus.</p>