USNWR 2009: Looking at the Top Strata V (Transfer Data)

College Search & Selection
1

<p>The publication of the 2009 USNWR College Rankings provides an opportunity to compare schools based on a wide variety of data points. In this and in other threads, I urge the reader to think less about the absolute rankings and more about the nature and value-added of the data point being discussed. </p>

<p>Transfer Applications , Transfer Acceptances , Transfer Acceptance % , Transfer Enrollees , Transfer Yield , National University</p>

<p>13541 , 5330 , 39% , 3321 , 62% , UCLA
11041 , 3311 , 30% , 2036 , 61% , UC Berkeley
2255 , 850 , 38% , 590 , 69% , U Virginia
2616 , 768 , 29% , 571 , 74% , Cornell
1611 , 368 , 23% , 227 , 62% , Georgetown
2102 , 296 , 14% , 197 , 67% , U Penn
942 , 313 , 33% , 190 , 61% , Northwestern
624 , 234 , 38% , 171 , 73% , Notre Dame
506 , 193 , 38% , 126 , 65% , Vanderbilt
1030 , 214 , 21% , 93 , 43% , Wash U
581 , 152 , 26% , 82 , 54% , Emory
1401 , 112 , 8% , 81 , 72% , Columbia
376 , 98 , 26% , 56 , 57% , Rice
1004 , 90 , 9% , 55 , 61% , Brown
578 , 77 , 13% , 44 , 57% , Carnegie Mellon
641 , 77 , 12% , 41 , 53% , U Chicago
775 , 33 , 4% , 28 , 85% , Yale
722 , 63 , 9% , 26 , 41% , Johns Hopkins
497 , 41 , 8% , 23 , 56% , Dartmouth
1400 , 23 , 2% , 20 , 87% , Stanford
289 , 17 , 6% , 15 , 88% , MIT
97 , 8 , 8% , 6 , 75% , Caltech
0 , 0 , 0% , 0 , 0% , Harvard
0 , 0 , 0% , 0 , 0% , Princeton</p>

<p>na , na , na , na , na , Duke</p>

<p>Transfer Applications , Transfer Acceptances , Transfer Acceptance % , Transfer Enrollees , Transfer Yield , LAC</p>

<p>310 , 130 , 42% , 65 , 50% , Smith
586 , 126 , 22% , 60 , 48% , Wesleyan
297 , 78 , 26% , 42 , 54% , Oberlin
296 , 49 , 17% , 24 , 49% , Macalester
247 , 49 , 20% , 22 , 45% , Colgate
103 , 35 , 34% , 21 , 60% , Grinnell
189 , 33 , 17% , 20 , 61% , Claremont McK
212 , 32 , 15% , 18 , 56% , Wellesley
246 , 30 , 12% , 14 , 47% , Middlebury
217 , 35 , 16% , 14 , 40% , Bates
189 , 26 , 14% , 13 , 50% , Swarthmore
276 , 18 , 7% , 11 , 61% , Amherst
168 , 22 , 13% , 11 , 50% , Carleton
181 , 19 , 10% , 10 , 53% , Pomona
82 , 19 , 23% , 10 , 53% , Davidson
227 , 27 , 12% , 10 , 37% , Vassar
111 , 17 , 15% , 10 , 59% , W&L
161 , 25 , 16% , 9 , 36% , Colby
134 , 13 , 10% , 8 , 62% , Williams
127 , 14 , 11% , 7 , 50% , Hamilton
92 , 20 , 22% , 6 , 30% , Bryn Mawr
182 , 6 , 3% , 3 , 50% , Bowdoin
43 , 5 , 12% , 3 , 60% , Harvey Mudd
91 , 7 , 8% , 2 , 29% , Haverford</p>

<p>na , na , na , na , na , US Military Acad
na , na , 22% , na , na , US Naval Acad</p>

2

<p>OK, I'll bite: what do YOU think are the "nature and value added" of this data, hawkette? On its face it tells me absolutely nothing. Maybe if you added something about what fraction of the student body the transfer students constitute, or how their credentials stack up against freshman admits, it might convey something useful. My first reaction to what you present here, however, is that it appears to be just data for the sake of data.</p>

<p>By the way, I'm not at all surprised at the large numbers of transfer applicants and acceptances at UCLA and Berkeley. California has a well developed system of community colleges, and going from a local community college to one of the UCs is a highly respectable and well-trod path to a college degree there.</p>

3

<p>Not surprised at the really high yield at Notre Dame...it seems like the kind of school that people who don't get accepted on their first try might re-apply after a year of college and get after it.</p>

4

<p>bc,
Sometimes the question is asked about how frequently students transfer into the most elite colleges. This data gives some insight into the prominence of transfer students at a given college. To my knowledge, there is no data available on the qualifications of these students. Here is a look at the data that you suggested might be useful:</p>

<p>Transfer Enrollees , Approximate % of Its Class , College</p>

<p>3321 , 51% , UCLA
2036 , 33% , UC Berkeley
571 , 17% , Cornell
590 , 16% , U Virginia
227 , 13% , Georgetown
190 , 9% , Northwestern
197 , 8% , U Penn
126 , 8% , Vanderbilt
171 , 8% , Notre Dame
56 , 7% , Rice
93 , 5% , Wash U
82 , 5% , Emory
81 , 4% , Columbia
55 , 4% , Brown
6 , 3% , Caltech
41 , 3% , U Chicago
44 , 3% , Carnegie Mellon
28 , 2% , Yale
23 , 2% , Dartmouth
26 , 2% , Johns Hopkins
15 , 1% , MIT
20 , 1% , Stanford
0 , 0% , Harvard
0 , 0% , Princeton</p>

<p>na , na , Duke</p>

<p>Transfer Enrollees, Approximate % of Its Class, College</p>

<p>65 , 10% , Smith
60 , 9% , Wesleyan
20 , 7% , Claremont McK
42 , 6% , Oberlin
21 , 5% , Grinnell
24 , 5% , Macalester
11 , 3% , Amherst
13 , 3% , Swarthmore
18 , 3% , Wellesley
10 , 3% , Pomona
22 , 3% , Colgate
14 , 3% , Bates
8 , 2% , Williams
14 , 2% , Middlebury
11 , 2% , Carleton
10 , 2% , Davidson
10 , 2% , Vassar
3 , 2% , Harvey Mudd
10 , 2% , W&L
7 , 2% , Hamilton
6 , 2% , Bryn Mawr
9 , 2% , Colby
3 , 1% , Bowdoin
2 , 1% , Haverford</p>

<p>na , na , US Military Acad
na , na , US Naval Acad</p>

5

<p>
[quote]
OK, I'll bite: what do YOU think are the "nature and value added" of this data, hawkette? On its face it tells me absolutely nothing. Maybe if you added something about what fraction of the student body the transfer students constitute, or how their credentials stack up against freshman admits, it might convey something useful. My first reaction to what you present here, however, is that it appears to be just data for the sake of data.</p>

<p>By the way, I'm not at all surprised at the large numbers of transfer applicants and acceptances at UCLA and Berkeley. California has a well developed system of community colleges, and going from a local community college to one of the UCs is a highly respectable and well-trod path to a college degree there.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>While it is somewhat true that this data is more obscure than the typical and oft-quoted statistics, there are still a few elements worth analyzing. </p>

<p>The point that the UC system seems to have a well developed system of community colleges. should we not try to find out if the students who transfer to the two flagship schools are indeed community college students or come from colleges within the UC or CSU families? </p>

<p>Further, should not we also compare the rate of admissions for transfers to the admission rates for freshmen? It seems that the list posted by Hawkette indicates that a few school admit or enroll transfers at a higher rate than their otherwise "published" rates of admissions. Should we not use this data to reevaluate the selectivity of those schools, or consider averaging the rates after weighing them properly? </p>

<p>Mister Morse, are you listening?</p>

6

<p>Do these figures include internal transfers, or only transfers from outside the university? At Michigan, for example, if you're in the College of Literature, Science and the Arts (LS & A) and you want to switch to Engineering or Business, you must apply as a transfer student. It's unclear from the way US News presents the data whether these internal transfers are counted as "transfers." </p>

<p>Indeed, since the Ross BBA program is a three-year program beginning in the sophomore year, technically every Ross undergrad is a transfer student, either an internal transfer (usually from LS & A, but it could be from another undergrad school), or a transfer from another undergraduate institution. A possible exception is Ross "preferred admits" who are pre-admitted into Ross in the regular freshman admissions cycle, but must pass the required LS & A courses and otherwise perform satisfactorily in their first year in LS & A to complete their admission to Ross. Michigan doesn't have nearly as many transfers as UCLA or Berkeley (2,867 transfer applicants, 1,154 accepted, 40% acceptance rate, 779 enrolled = 11.9% of class, yield = 68%). But programs of this kind would tend to inflate transfer numbers, especially if internal transfers are counted---as I assume they are, since the Ross admissions process is essentially a transfer process, and as far as I know Michigan LS & A applicants get no special consideration over external transfers. Since Ross enrolls about 350 new BBA students per year, Ross BBA students could account for nearly half the Michigan "transfers" recorded in the US News data. Similarly, the undergrad Architecture B.S. program at Michigan is a two-year (junior and senior year) program, explicitly described as a "transfer program"; all Architecture B.S. students must apply as transfer students either from Michigan or from another undergrad institution.</p>

<p>Anyway, I'd want to know a whole lot more about what US News is counting here before I drew any conclusions whatsoever from this data. And I certainly wouldn't assume, without further clarification, that all these transfers represent transfers "into" the university from other institutions.</p>

7

<p>bc,
I believe that the transfer data that USNWR reports comes from the CDS. If so, it is clear that intra-college transfers are NOT part of the numbers. </p>

<p>To the question of how freshmen acceptance rates compare to transfer acceptance rates, here are the numbers. Caution on interpreting these too literally as we have no idea of the applicant pools for each school nor of their year-to-year appetite for transfer students. </p>

<p>Difference , Transfer Acceptance Rate , Freshmen Acceptance Rate , National University</p>

<p>15% , 39% , 24% , UCLA
8% , 29% , 21% , Cornell
7% , 30% , 23% , UC Berkeley
6% , 33% , 27% , Northwestern
5% , 38% , 33% , Vanderbilt
5% , 38% , 33% , Notre Dame
4% , 21% , 17% , Wash U
3% , 38% , 35% , U Virginia
2% , 23% , 21% , Georgetown
1% , 26% , 25% , Rice
-1% , 26% , 27% , Emory
-2% , 14% , 16% , U Penn
-3% , 8% , 11% , Columbia
-5% , 9% , 14% , Brown
-6% , 4% , 10% , Yale
-6% , 6% , 12% , MIT
-7% , 8% , 15% , Dartmouth
-8% , 2% , 10% , Stanford
-9% , 8% , 17% , Caltech
-10% , 0% , 10% , Princeton
-15% , 9% , 24% , Johns Hopkins
-15% , 13% , 28% , Carnegie Mellon
-23% , 12% , 35% , U Chicago</p>

<p>na , na , 9% , Harvard
na , na , 23% , Duke</p>

<p>Difference , Transfer Acceptance Rate , Freshmen Acceptance Rate , LAC</p>

<p>1% , 17% , 16% , Claremont McK
-4% , 14% , 18% , Swarthmore
-5% , 23% , 28% , Davidson
-5% , 22% , 27% , Wesleyan
-5% , 26% , 31% , Oberlin
-6% , 10% , 16% , Pomona
-6% , 20% , 26% , Colgate
-8% , 10% , 18% , Williams
-9% , 12% , 21% , Middlebury
-10% , 42% , 52% , Smith
-11% , 7% , 18% , Amherst
-12% , 15% , 27% , W&L
-14% , 16% , 30% , Bates
-16% , 3% , 19% , Bowdoin
-16% , 34% , 50% , Grinnell
-16% , 12% , 28% , Harvey Mudd
-16% , 16% , 32% , Colby
-17% , 13% , 30% , Carleton
-17% , 8% , 25% , Haverford
-17% , 12% , 29% , Vassar
-17% , 11% , 28% , Hamilton
-21% , 15% , 36% , Wellesley
-23% , 22% , 45% , Bryn Mawr
-24% , 17% , 41% , Macalester</p>

<p>na , na , 15% , US Military Acad
na , na , 12% , US Naval Acad</p>