USNWR rankings-Overrate Ivies, Underrate Notre Dame and others?

<p>Over in the College Search Forum, I started a thread questioning the USNWR rankings as I believe that they consistently underrate the top schools of the Midwest and the South in favor of the more “prestigious” schools on the coasts, particularly those of the Northeast and the Ivy League. </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=279420%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=279420&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>IMO, Northwestern, Rice, Emory, Vanderbilt, and Notre Dame are all excellent schools that provide an undergraduate experience arguably superior to that offered by several higher ranked Ivy institutions. I attribute this under appreciation to a) much greater (and more fawning) media coverage of the Ivy schools; b) the Ivy schools having much greater proximity to major population centers which leads to greater numbers of applicants and higher selectivity statistics; and c) the ranking systems that perpetuate the status of the Ivy League. </p>

<p>Now, a few questions for this forum:<br>
Do you agree with this premise that the Midwest/Southern schools are underrated and deserve to be ranked more highly than many of the Ivy schools?<br>
If Notre Dame were located in a major northeastern city rather than South Bend, how do you believe its ranking and public perception would change?
If Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Penn or Columbia were located in South Bend, how do you think their ranking and public perception would change?</p>

<p>Um ... major NE city?
Cornell is upstate NY
Dartmouth: Hanover, NH
definitely not major cities</p>

<p>By the way, Northwestern is ranked above Brown on USNews ranks</p>

<p>However, I agree they are a bit unappreciated. Don't forget, name commands respect -- that's just how it is.</p>

<p>Major city would help but I agree that a lot is just the name. I also think that being a religious school hurts ND in the rankings. However, in the long run, rankings mean nothing. I would much rather have people who know ND is good and want to be at ND be there than people who go there because it is a top 20 institution. Would I like to see it move up, you bet, but it doesn't matter too much either. The people who will fit in at ND are the ones who will want to go there for the school it is, not the name it has. I honestly think going to any school for prestige is one of the biggest mistakes a person can make, you have to go where you fit.</p>

<p>Now you may be saying wait...easy for you to say, yo ugo to a high prestige school. It is just where I fit. If you were to look at the schools I am applying to for graduate school I am not applying to the prestigeous names by and large. I have the stats, but I don't fit there, and I know I would do better somewhere else. </p>

<p>Anyways, I do think ND is underrated but it doesn't matter. Rankings mean little when it comes to fit.</p>

<p>It sickens me that kids would apply to college soley based on some usnews ranking....</p>

<p>For me college is about a fit......</p>

<p>for me... that fit is notre Dame...... I dont care if ND was ranked 145 or 225 or 4009... its the college for me</p>

<p>So i dont buy into to the whole underrated and overrated ********... because it s hould be a personal choice</p>

<p>Add Georgetown to the underrated list...What I'm about to say here may offend some people but I'm going to say it anyway....and there is a very strong possibility that I will end up attending ND next year (I was accepted EA) so I'm not some disgruntled/jealous ND reject...ND is greatly aided in its ranking in US News by its Very Large Endowment and its high alumni giving rate when it in fact has a lower "peer assessment score" (which many say is the only part of the rankings that matters) than many schools ranked below it (Georgetown, Michigan, uva, UNC, GTech, Cal Berkeley, UCLA, UTA, UW madison)...So No, I don't believe ND is underrated in the USNWR Rankings, but I don't think anyone should put much emphasis on them anyway...ND is a great school which will open up as many if not more doors for its students upon graduation than any east coast IVY...Go Irish!</p>

<p>That's because the peer institutions are dominated by secularists, who do not believe that any institution willing to retain an openly religious identity in a modern society--much less the modern society of academia--could possibly have any intellectual heft or diversity of thought. </p>

<p>It does not surprise me in the least that within the echo chamber of academic elites, Notre Dame is far down the food chain. It is, after all, an institution that dares to assert a moral code in an era of moral relativism.</p>

<p>Oh well, USNW Report's loss is society's gain. Notre Dame graduates smart, motivated leaders with a conscience. God knows that's what our society needs...</p>

<p>You mention Georgetown as an institution ranked higher by peer institutions, but lower in the overall USNWR lists. That is a university which has pretty much chucked its Catholic underpinnings, in the interests of running with the big elites.</p>

<p>I applaud ND for having the guts to ignore those ratings and stick to what it is!</p>

<p>ddjones007...I agree with all that you said...but nonetheless, ND is not underrated by the USNews rankings...It's lower peer assessment score is more than counteracted by its financial resources/alumni giving ranks, and therefore I think it is in the right spot.</p>

<p>I'm sorry I can't believe that a school that is ranked 20th is UNDERRATED. It is possible that there just may happen to be 19 better schools out there...</p>

<p>This is the problem with the rankings, they are completely subjective and impossible to prove. I believe ND is underrated but there is nothing you can say to convince me that they are not and nothing I can say to show you that they are. It is all in the eye of the beholder. All the more reason I think the rankings are bunk, you are going to get an EXCELLENT education at any of the top 25 for sure, and the same can be said for a lot of the schools further down the list.</p>

<p>Here is our Strawman-a hypothethical religious educational Institution is being compared to several top educational instititions in US NEWS-</p>

<p>Does anyone believe that if a secular Northwestern, Washington U, Brown, Chicago or Carnegie-Mellon had alumni (like our hypothetical) who were recent or current Heads of State for four of the one hundred and three of the thirty most populous nations in the world, held 20 seats in the US Congress including the Majority Whip of the Senate and House Majority Leader, had two governors, was one of only 7 institutions with a Supreme Court Justice, had two past US Presidents (lets say Johnson and Clinton), had 2 of the 15 most powerful women in the world according to Forbes, had the President of MIT and the Commissioner of the NFL, had the commander of the US Army in Iraq, was one of only maybe four schools with single year three or more Rhodes and two or more Marhall scholar performances in the last 25 years, had a recent Cardinal in the Catholic Church, had alumni who ran or who do run the FDA, FCC, PCAOB and AFL-CIO, that any school with that kind of influence and performance like our strawman would not easily be rated among the top 10 in the nation?</p>

<p>There are many "excellent schools that provide an undergraduate experience arguably superior to that offered by several higher ranked Ivy institutions" that are not even in the top 50, it all depends on what is most important to you as a student. I would be pretty unhappy at almost any of the Ivies I have spent time at, for various reasons, so I am having a better undergraduate experience right where I am.</p>

<p>it all depends on what is most important to you as a student. I would be pretty unhappy at almost any of the Ivies I have spent time at, for various reasons, so I am having a better undergraduate experience right where I am.</p>

<p>^ amen to that..... amen amen amen good job allthosethings... i complettttely agree</p>