Well said
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This is happening bevause the standard tests become optional. Too many applucants who would not apply in the past will join the pool. AOâs have to depend on other facotors to determine studentsâ qualifications. This would be time consuming and more subjective.
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Agree itâs a crap shoot- my daughter is OOS and got accepted to UVA after being deferred in EA- she is thrilled ⊠BUT she got waitlisted at UNC⊠that was a hard one to swallowâŠ
This test optional stuff really messed a lot up for many-
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While I support test optional for equity reasons, I am pretty sure itâs the reason my in-state D with near perfect grades, a thoroughly challenging curriculum, and strong test scores got waitlisted. Even if only 20% of accepted students were test optional, in previous years those students might not have even applied (all because of one single negative feature on their apps - all else might have been perfect except for the test score). As a result, 20% of kids that historically would have been admitted got waitlisted.
Thatâs part of why I think Dean J is digging herself into a hole. While I think she is trying to help and be transparent, the things she said they really look for (a well rounded transcript with strong grades in the most challenging core subject areas) no longer are good enough for UVA. She needs to stop saying this and explain that it now seems to be a total crap shoot. Sure, do the hard courses, get the good grades, but donât get your hopes up. Short of curing covid, I am not sure of what else kids can do to stand out anymore.
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HS class of 2021 mom here. I just wanted to offer some support to all of you class of 22 parents. My daughter is a first year in state at UVA (loves it!). She recently ask for and saw her UVA admission application comments. What an eye opener! When she told me what was said, I was surprised at how critical the application was for someone who was accepted. Obviously, with thousands of applications, the reader is looking for any dents in the application, but still. The reader noted the B in eighth grade middle school math that was on the transcript and called it a âdown gradeâ even though Dj on her instagram live q&a has said âonly work done in the four years of high school is consideredâ not middle school. Hmmm. The reader also did not like her B+ junior year. Also, her ecs were considered âso-soâ even though for the class of 2021 we were told over and over again by admissions and school counselors that students would not be penalized for not being able to do their usual ecs during covid. Hmmm. These admission officers donât know our kids and what they can accomplish. My daughter was labeled a tentative offer. The admins were worried about a middle school B and my kid got straight Aâs her
first semester at UVA. My little miss is rocking it at school and your kids will too, wherever they go, despite what the admission officers think based on a few pieces of paper!
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I think there is also something that needs to be said about over inflating of grades. I donât know but back in the day when I was in high school, there were very few kids with straight As, now it seems like most of the class gets straight As or near straight As. My kid took full AP loads for the last 2 years (he is only allowed APs junior and senior year in his school) and was hardly working and still got straight As - I love my kid - but this is not because he is a genius - it is because As are too easy to get. His school is super competitive too. But what does it say when half the class is graduating with a 4.0 or above (weighted)? When I graduated high school weighting was just becoming a thing and only in public schools (in California, I was in private). With this over-inflation of grades and add to that test optional this makes it difficult to determine how to compare kids from different schools across different states. I would not want to be in any AOs shoes. It is all so arbitrary.
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Agreed. Much harder to distinguish among the crush of 4.0 applicants now than it used to be when that group was much smaller.
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DD22 OOS was deferred in EA round and now waitlisted. Sheâs pretty happy with this result. I wish we could find out how many were waitlisted and accepted their spot.
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this is insane, when does grade in middle school has defined anything in our lives. level of insanity! Your girl is amazing and she is clearly rocking!
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I agree. I particularly doubt some kidsâ weighted/unweighted GPAs when they get 2âs and 3âs on the AP exams.
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I feel you. I am going to make a thread after April 1 to explain in detail with concrete examples but I think the current process is as arbitrary as it is âholisticâ.
D22 has been accepted to two T30s (including UVA) and declined or waitlisted at two colleges around #60. Say what you will about the merits (or flaws) of rankings, TO, or holistic admissions, but anyone with older kids knows this rarely happened 3 years ago. Now, it seems the norm. In the Before Times, there was an objectivity and predictability to admissions, despite its many issues. Now, the increased ambiguity only serves to increase the number of apps⊠further adding to the uncertainty⊠further increasing the number of apps⊠ad infinitum.
I have been doing alumni interviews for 21 years and I honestly have no idea how current AOs are making these decisions. That everyone (in this tier) basically gets straight As yet a) doesnât have to submit AP scores and b) doesnât get ranked against peers (at most schools) essentially makes those GPAs meaningless as a parsing mechanism. Add in test optional and the explosion of applications and a process grounded in objectivity and comparison has been replaced by a largely subjective black box.
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Totally agree about grade inflation! I think we had like 10 students with a GPA over 4.0 in my graduating high school class!! With 40% of graduating classes having GPAs over 4.0 it seems ridiculousâŠ.however, my guess is that the colleges have just moved the goal post in how they accept students.
That said, whatâs frustrating and one thing you really canât (and probably shouldnât) do anything about is that not all high schools are equally competitive. I can honestly say that my DDs were expected to work VERY hard in their AP courses - many late nights studying. My DD currently at UVA says that she does see a difference in students that came from different high schools. She is not finding it super hard but some of her friends are. But, at the end of the day, no school can accept kids only from the most challenging high school, so you probably do end up with lots of qualified kids not getting in simply because they are at a tougher HS. This I can say has NOT changed since I was in HS/college back in the 80âs/90âs. Itâs just the way the world works.
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From the Admissions blog:
âWaiting list offers: 16%
The waiting list forms as students opt into it via the applicant portal and we have seen up to HALF decline putting themselves on the list. The waiting list can be thought of as having ten different segments (in-state and OOS for each of the five academic areas that take first-year students)â.
Guessing there are a few thousand that get wait-listed. Even if half of those drop off, itâs still maybe 10 kids out of 1500 that end up getting in.
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I know, right! It just showed to me how admission officers are not as forthcoming about what really goes on. And it really proved to me how acceptances can go either way.
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So true and so nice of you for sharing it! It is so stupid too, if you can get As in high school which is much tougher than middle school, than why does middle school define anything. It is mostly kids taking things seriously or not at that young age⊠crazy
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âWorriedâ about a middle school B.
In other words, worried about being human.
I hope we take the lessons weâve learned from the past two years and pass them to our children and that our children also take the lessons theyâve learned from the past two years to just put a stop to this madness. The standards to achieve perfection, the expectation to keep your foot on the gas at all times, without ever a pause, without ever stepping back to take a breath, what is that doing to all of us, especially to our kids. Perfection in school, perfection in sports - we are seeing real mental health problems, suicide skyrocket. What for?
I have been in this process for my D along with all of you, I have lost sleep, I have been anxious, I have been obsessing over percentages and likelihoods and the âwhat ifsâ. My D, on the other had, has not been losing sleep, has not been anxious, has not been obsessing over percentages and likelihoods and the âwhat ifsâ. She worked hard, did what she needed to do.
She is ready to graduate, ready to leave HS, ready to pursue her passions. Whether she got a B+ in a tough class during a global pandemic because of a multitude of extenuating circumstances, or got all As for all 4 years, she has the tools to navigate college. She will land on her two feet wherever the next step takes her.
I will be better prepared for this process when D25 steps into it. I hope we all can continue to support our kids and their mental health through this, through college, and beyond. Whatever they choose to do, it will be good enough.
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Wow! Thank you for sharing this! So helpful and fascinating! And really ridiculous! 
Sounds like you have an amazing daughter! 
My older DD is at UVA (was accepted ED for class of 2020 with virtually the same courses, grades as my waitlisted Class of 2022 DD), she is finding the same academically at UVA - doing amazing with her grades. My girls have been at one of the more academically intense high schools, so, she is not finding UVA to be overwhelming. She has friends that are struggling with classes though, so, obviously, it can be a challenging school for some. Thanks for sharing- helps to understand things better.
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Great post. So spot on.
Despite what the admission officers say, they are looking for perfection. No wonder some kids are stressed and feel they arenât good enough after decisions. The admission officers thought my kidâs ecs were so so but she was president of a very large club with lots of responsibility and work, captain of a sports team and went to summer governorâs school the summer before covid - which was extremely competitive to get - among a bunch of other things that were actually real. What she didnât do was âinvent a non profit or clubâ during covid, which we all know what that can be.
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This is why I think Dean J needs to stop doing her blogs/Q&As - while I am sure she does it with good intentions, sheâs giving false hope to a lot of kids AND giving out info that doesnât seem to be 100% based on facts. Iâve wondered why no other school admission offices are doing these âsessionsâ and now I know why - thereâs no way to really give advice when schools are expecting nothing short of perfection and with more perfection than available spaces, the whole admission process becomes arbitrary.
My husband keeps saying, sheâs going to end up a liability for the school if she keeps up sharing info that doesnât really match with how they review applications. 
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