<p>Charilie, I got a PM from someone whose son is at UVA. Had all grants with a zero EFC the prior year. EFC went up to about $400 this year, and $14K of grants was replaced by self help including $10K in Perkins and Direct loans. That seems to me to be an indication that currently enrolled students are being affected. This is a real time situation.</p>
<p>I’m okay with the change to have kids receiving need based aid have to take out some loans. One of my kids graduated in engineering from UVa. We were full pay but had him take out some unsubsidized Staffords so he would have some financial responsibility in his education . And also because we are not wealthy. Having two kids full pay at our state schools has been a stretch. It did seem odd that my kids had to take out loans and pay them back with their earnings but other kids coming out of school that got financial aid did not have to pay back any loans (even thought they had the same ability to go out and start making money and start paying back loans). This change does seem more fair to me. And I am glad that UVa is generous with financial aid. Just didn’t help my kid! But he did get a great education at an instate rate .</p>
<p>SOME loans is one thing. When $14K is changed from grant to self help, that is a problem, especially for those from low income households. That kid could have probably had better package than that, he turned down. I would not have expected a school like UVA to pull this kind of business on a student already enrolled. Like Is aid, shame on them, unless there is a good explanation for this. </p>
<p>Students are expected to take on more of the college costs each year. ALso costs go up. But $14K? And to do it under the radar so that technically the kid is not losing any financial aid? That is rank. Shame, shame.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse, I only glanced at the other thread I think you are referring to. As someone on that thread said, you are only getting one side of the story. Also, UVa uses another form beyond the FAFSA. Maybe there are assets that are now showing up. Who knows? There is no way to know the whole story. If you are concerned, you may want to PM this person with the link that the OP posted that indicates that kids already enrolled would be grandfathered.</p>
<p>Please keep in mind that the vast majority of students receiving aid from UVa were already taking out federal loans. If this change went into effect today, it would affect something like 260 students, if I understand it correctly from the Board meeting summaries I read.</p>
<p>There have been a couple comments on CC from people who complained that their UVa aid fell this year. One person said they believed that UVa stopped separating out flexible spending accounts, cafeteria accounts, etc. from income. The formulas used by colleges do not necessarily follow the federal Fafsa formulas - colleges can adjust the formulas for aid that uses their own funds. With financial aid from any college, I’ve also read that sometimes there are quirks involving one-time income or family small business revenues.</p>
<p>There was a threshold in family income and assets for students who did not have to take out loans. It is possible that a student’s family was below the threshold last year, but went above it this year.</p>
<p>Sevmom, i was in contact with the person via a number of PMs before it went to the board, and I was the one who brought it to the board. Something is not right in all of the situation beyond what has been said, and hopefully it will be addressed. The problem is that the 260 students being affected seem to be among the ones with the lowest incomes who can least take this bait and switch. A student with no loans might have been using Direct loans to pay the expected contribution which is a huge help in a low income family. When the loans are then turned into part of the financial aid package it causes immense problems for those who can least afford it.</p>
<p>I haven’t seen the board summaries that charlie is referring to about these 260 students so not sure if that is referring to kids already enrolled or not. I looked in the link in post #1 again. The way I understood it is that 250 new students( then revised upward to 300+) that would have gotten aid previously that did not include loans, will now, if they are first years in 2014-2015 instead have to take more loans. The article says others will be grandfathered. If the person you have been PMing feels they need to be grandfathered, maybe that is the angle they need to pursue. But, as I said earlier, we may not have the whole picture as to this person’s finances and what communications have already gone on between this person and the financial aid office.</p>
<p>*Quote:
There you go. The full pay OOS students are subsidizing.</p>
<p>==============
Impossible to cover all of the finaid by full-payors, based on the fact that 31% receive $. And it HAS to cost at least $30k to educate the average undergrad.*</p>
<p>Where are you seeing that 31% of OOS students are receiving institutional grant aid?</p>
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<p>From post #19:</p>
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<p>While the above maybe next year’s projections, I assume that such is based off of historical experience.</p>
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<p>Excellent point. UVa also uses Profile.</p>
<p>UVa typically lumps international students in with out of state students. Therefore, if 31% of OOS students receive some UVa aid, it might actually be closer to 40% of US OOS students. That is understandable, because few families can cover a cost of attendance of $51K to $56K a year, not including travel and personal expenses.</p>
<p>What was the income threshold for those who had no loans?</p>
<p>For AccessUVA you had to be below 200% of the federal poverty guidelines and have less than 75k in assets</p>
<p>[Federal</a> Poverty Guidelines](<a href=“http://www.familiesusa.org/resources/tools-for-advocates/guides/federal-poverty-guidelines.html]Federal”>http://www.familiesusa.org/resources/tools-for-advocates/guides/federal-poverty-guidelines.html)</p>
<p>An email went out today to all of the current students explaining the changes. I didn’t read it, but I imagine it was primarily aimed at avoiding panic among current students.</p>
<p>FYI – The email stated that no currently enrolled or 2013 entering students would be affected, and that changes would be phased in over 4 years starting with the entering class of 2014.</p>
<p>“The reauthorization resolution also puts in place a need-based loan cap of $28,000 for a four-year period, but we project that the actual maximum need-based loans for low income, in-state students will total about $14,000 over four years because their tuition is much lower.”</p>
<p>I think a loan cap of 28,000 even for OOS students remains very generous. The fact that the email confirms that current students would not be affected by any of the new changes is great.</p>
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<p>Blue…that doesn’t say what I asked. I said institutional aid. If a number of those students are only getting fed aid, then they are subsidizing other students.</p>
<p>^^same article, same source: (UVA press release):</p>
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<p>Average first year price = $28k (after finaid). Thus, financial aid totals an average of $25k per year. All such being federal aid? Don’t even have to check; minuscule chance. (Running the NPC for a zero income family results in a $46k grant by UVa for a Maryland resident.)</p>
<p>Now, what is happening is that Internationals may be subsidizing, but I highly doubt that too, since UVa is a top-notch institution which means that they have to pay top-notch salaries to attract and keep top-notch faculty. Thus, UVa’s all-in educational expenses cannot be much less than $50k/undergrad. Most likely, the Internationals are barely covering their costs, or perhaps subsidizing tuition by a few thousand per person. But that in no way can cover the $25k in total need for 30% of the OOS’ers.</p>
<p>here’s the nationwide trend from the Hechinger report:</p>
<p>Rich kids subsidize poor kids. Out-of-state students subsidize in-state ones. Humanities majors subsidize science majors. Freshmen and sophomores subsidize juniors and seniors. Undergraduates subsidize graduate students. And international students subsidize everyone.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.virginia.edu/keyissues/documents/AccessUVaFAQAug2013.pdf[/url]”>http://www.virginia.edu/keyissues/documents/AccessUVaFAQAug2013.pdf</a></p>
<p>More explanation.</p>
<p>The only OOSers I know who went to UVA ( those around here) were not eligible for fin aid but were close to full tution (maybe even full ride, though not sure) as they were athletes and the winner fo some major scholarship from the school. All were academically or athletically talented enough that they had acceptances to some of the top schools in the country in academics or their sport. But they sure as heck were not paying much to go to UVA. They picked the school because it was the best one that would pay them for what they brought to college whether it was academic success or athletic prowress. I know a kid who tunred down Yale, and another who turned down other ivies to go there, but would not have without the money. This was before UVA guaranteed 100% of need to be met, by the way,but for them, they would not have gotten aid anyways. </p>
<p>I know some others who were accepted but demurred because the price differential was just not enough between UVA and another highly selective school, and those students/parents felt that they would be in better academic company at the other schools, given that UVA does have 2/3 of the kids from in state and most of them are not of the calibre of the OOS crowd, whereas a highly selective private is more homogeneous in regard to academic strenght, unfettered by state % requirements. UVA has to find most of their students from the one state, Many of those in state kids would not have been accepted as OOSers. So for those for whom that is a consideration, the %10K or so price differntial was not good enough. Had it been free tuition, they might have taken the down grade. Just the way the economics work. The same with Michigan and other very good state unis with the inflated OOS prices. THough with UMi, it seems they are giving out some $10K merit money which does cause a apause with thought s like $40K UMich vs $60K+ Colgate, and in such cases, the cost differential can win out. I don’t see much in the way of those kind of merit awards for OOSers at UVA. </p>
<p>UVA is not known as a school that is helping out a lot of low income kids despite the full need met policy. I do know that they were interested in getting disadvantaged, qualified OOS kids to their school as is UNC-CH, but UNC has some more directed programs in this endeavor. Why these state schools are even interested in OOS needy kids, I don’t know. If I were a VIrginian, I 'd want them to focus on their own state students who need a lot of financial aid. Covering a OOS high need applicant means far more substantial discounting than doing so for the instaters cost which is half, and this is after all a state school subject to state rules.</p>