<p>Oh, it’s a U Wisconsin / UVA match thing with barrons. Whatever.</p>
<p>Fair enough Xiggi. You are correct, these are the accepted students. I supposed we will have to wait and see how far these numbers shift when the committed class is formed. I still hold that OOS is higher and close to 75% is accurate for an unhooked applicant.</p>
<p>UVa has stated that they do not find SAT scores to be the best predictor of college success. Instead, they find the difficulty of the high school courseload and the GPA to be a better predictor. That is why almost every enrolled student shows up with AP credits.</p>
<p>This was not intended to be a public document. I believe she used the words “overrated” to simply get the attention of the Boardmembers. If you read her whole report, it makes a great deal of sense.</p>
<p>I just read through Sullivan’s Academic Strategy memo to Dragas in May. If I were on the faculty, I would be seriously alarmed. She is proposing to reduce faculty teaching of first and second year courses, hiring of teaching fellows to take on those teaching loads, abolish individual departmental budget and letting unprofitable departments die by attrition. What she wants is to focus resources on stars and create centers as their playgrounds to attract them. These are clearly drastic initiatives that may even be successful but will clearly change the University as we have known and loved. If these were indeed the views that alarmed the Board, I would undoubtedly agree with the action.</p>
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<p>How unusual! Is there anyone who still pretends the SAT to be the SOLE best predictor? Now, borrow the tagline of the College Board, and you have the position that the best predictor is a combination of the SAT plus high school performance. But then, what else could there be? </p>
<p>Fwiw, if UVA believed so strongly in the HS courseload alone, they could always decide to drop the SAT. That’d make the idiots at FairTest happy! </p>
<p>As far as students showing with AP credits, a cynic might say that Virginia might be renamed IB/AP-landia. Especially when considering how long Jay Matthews has been waging his crusade on the issue.</p>
<p>That’s why they are tough decisions. Everyone wants to eat their cake and have it too. If you want a reputation as a significant academic power you have to have some academic power and not the illusion of that. Sullivan has been at enough real academic powers that she knows it when she sees it and when she does not. Maybe it was news to some at UVa. In the 2012-13 UVa budget she goes much deeper into finances and trends in same. One way she saw for UVa to secure funds for quality growth was to grow the research component which has been flat while other research U’s were enjoying rapid growth. With a 50%+ overhead rate every $100 million in new research grants means $50 million to spend in other areas.</p>
<p>BTW–newsflash</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.readthehook.com/104241/hell-breaks-loose-uva-faculty-condemn-sullivan-ouster#comment-280801[/url]”>http://www.readthehook.com/104241/hell-breaks-loose-uva-faculty-condemn-sullivan-ouster#comment-280801</a></p>
<p>Padad - I didn’t read it that way. She wants to move some additional content for 1st year students to online formats. That can actually increase classtime available for discussion and questions, vs. passively sitting in a large lecture hall. That hybrid model is working at other universities.</p>
<p>It would be desirable to have some faculty who concentrate on undergrad teaching, with a higher course load, vs. picking every new employee for research.</p>
<p>There are probably some departments that have little interest from students and don’t need to remain a separate dept. She proposes abolishing the dept. structure for some small departments, but keeping those faculty members with interdisciplinary titles.</p>
<p>FWIW, on our recent visit, we found UVA uninspiring. We were surprised and disappointed. OTOH, impressed by UTexas. Have never seen UWisconsin.</p>
<p>Interesting comments,Bay. Sorry you found UVa “uninspiring” and were "surprised and disappointed " with no explanation. To each their own but UVa is part of a World Heritage Site ,founded by Thomas Jefferson , and has beautiful ,historic Grounds. But as they say, to each their own. There are many private universities, including many of the top schools that many CC folks aspire to, that I found to be uninspiring as well, but don’t think I would be inclined to comment on that if they were going through challenging times. As someone said earlier, kind of like kicking someone while they’re down.</p>
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<p>In a nutshell, I feel this is why this thread and to a lesser degree, the one on the UVa forum, won’t die. The fact that the faculty, as well as the parents, were taken aback by the BOV’s decision is of little consequence to me. In today’s litigious society, a board of 16 simply doesn’t unanimously decide to release a president without some justification. There’s more to this story than meets the eye. Whatever the reason, I for one will reserve judgment until more information is forthcoming, and should it never materialize, so be it; NDAs are always signed, usually for good reason, and the board does not need the parents’ or faculty members’ approval to make decisions. Those who are trying to make more of this than necessary are, IMO, simply trying to disparage this fine university in hopes of somehow damaging the school’s reputation so that its prestige/rank will fall thus advancing their own school. Parents, students, and fans of UVA should stand proud and defend their school – it’s still honored as the second best public in the nation and continues to have my support.</p>
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<p>Really? If we all tip-toed around colleges that have issues, there wouldn’t be much to talk about here.</p>
<p>The title of this thread: “UVA is overrated,” is what caught my eye. I first visited UVa 25 years ago and thought it was amazing. Prior to this recent trip, the word on UVa from acquaintances, USNWR and this site, was how great it is. Perhaps our expectations were unrealistic. Regardless, we found it … okay, I guess. It felt a bit unattended to, under construction, uncohesive, it didn’t strike a chord of any kind. I don’t know how else to describe it. I’m sorry if it hurts your feelings to hear this. If it makes you feel any better, UC Berkeley doesn’t blow my socks off either, and that is our flagship.</p>
<p>Bay, Your comments do not hurt my feelings at all. You have the right to your opinion and UVa is not at all for every kid or family. There are other good threads to add to your review, such as the one about schools we/kids crossed off the list after visiting that may be helpful to kids/parents considering UVa. You can certainly detail any of your concerns there.</p>
<p>Okay, will do.</p>
<p>I thought UVA 25 years ago was amazing, too, fwiw, and seriously considered going there.</p>
<p>It’s a well known fact that OOS candidates are subject to higher requirements to be admitted. Think about it, only 33% of the slots are allocated to OOS students; the pool of in-state and OOS applicants are about the same, therefore it IS more competitive to get into UVA as OOS. Given that the average SAT score (verbal and math only) for recent admits is 1395, there is no doubt OOS applicants need at least 1400-1450 range to increase likelihood of being accepted. It’s not that hard to digest.</p>
<p>barboza, I think you are a UVa grad so thanks for your input. UVa actually had over 28,000 applications last year. Historically, the instate pool has remained pretty similar (about 7-8000 range). The number of out of state applications are MUCH higher. Instate kids and their guidance counselors have a pretty good idea of what it takes to get in and many instate kids do not bother to apply unless all their ducks are in a row( very high GPA, rigorous courses, great EC’s, great recommendations and essays). The OOS students probably do tend to have higher SAT’s on average but there are many instate kids who had very high ,over 1450 SAT’s as well, including my son.</p>
<p>jc40, if that is what the Sullivan memo and posts about it says to you that is your opinion. Some have long felt that UVa had a stronger than deserved reputation more based on tradition than facts. Now that feeling is generally supported by a very blunt direct memo from the top by one that knows top universities. An opinion that might have cost her her job. That fact has been documented by other internal studies over the years.</p>
<p>I’ve been thinking about this for days and have these thoughts. First, I liked Teresa Sullivan and thought she was doing a good job. I’m pleased with some of the changes, and I particularly the kinesiology department she added. As to worries about tenured professors retiring and departmental ratings, I would imagine these concerns are not unique to Virginia. I strongly dispute the idea that the school is over-rated, as I know many, many bright elite students who are finding their courses extremely challenging. Most of my classmates agree that our scores from the mid-80s would be less than stellar amid today’s applicants. The students applying to UVA also apply to Princeton, Duke, and Cornell on a regular basis. Some of those are turned down at Virginia yet admitted to those of the others. The idea that they then find their education to be somehow lacking in intensity, opportunity, or challenge is ridiculous. Finally, Virginia offers a unique sense of tradition and a strong foundation of honor and the importance of personal integrity which stays with students long after they walk down the Lawn in their last act as students. If this controversy leads to a decline in applications I submit that is a short- sighted view but hold firmly to the belief that the level of quality of the students will not decline, and that future generations of students will continue to be the best and brightest and further, that they will continue to receive an education and enjoy an educational experience which rivals that offered by the other elite schools in this country. I wish President Sullivan all the best and will be glad to welcome the new President as well.</p>
<p>Really nice, 89wahoo. Thanks for reminding us of what makes Virginia special. It’s been a little hard to remember in recent days, but in less than a year my D will walk the Lawn. I want her to be proud because I sure will be!</p>