<p>DD, a rising sr. from CA, is considering majoring in public policy and will apply to W&M or UVA, but not both. (App list is too long already and we're trying to shorten not lengthen the list.) Which school do you recommend and why? (X-posting on W&M site.)</p>
<p>I know nothing about W&M’s program, but for most academic fields the two schools are considered academic equals. The main difference is that UVa is more fun.</p>
<p>UVa’s program was endowed with $100 million a few years ago by Frank Batten, the founder of the Weather Channel. They have been able to hire several great profs, and are still hiring more. Because so few universities have been hiring tenure-track profs, this has been a great time to hire profs. The program also works with profs in other parts of the U., including economics, politics and Law School profs. </p>
<p>Several million dollars of that gift was used to rehab a 100 year old historic wood-paneled building for the program.</p>
<p>UVa’s students apply for admission around January of their Second Year. It is competitive, but not extremely competitive. The program has been growing in phases, tied to the average size of a classroom of students (which I think is 30 or 35). </p>
<p>UVa students also have the option of applying for a joint bachelors-masters degree that can be completed 5 years. That saves a great deal of money and time and avoids losing another year of lost income vs. if you later go for a 2 year masters.</p>
<p>UVa is 2 hours from DC, which is much closer than Wiliamsburg (particularly considering I-95 can slow to 20 mph at times over long distances).</p>
<p>Also, it probably is more convenient and less expensive to fly into Dulles Airport than Norfolk. Dulles is still 1.5 hours from Cville, but you should be able to find people who are driving back and forth. A huge percentage of UVa students drive pass Dulles on their way to and from UVa. The DC area Metro rail system is being extended to Dulles - a new station to the east opens up in a few months. From the Metro system, you can connect to Amtrak to Cville or a bus service that travels on weekends to UVa. There also is a smaller airport with regularly scheduled service about 8 miles north of UVa.</p>
<p>@charlie -</p>
<p>Thanks for all the valuable insight, including the transportation issues.</p>
<p>For anyone who is considering a college that requires air flights, take a look at what it would cost to fly home over Thanksgiving and over Christmas. Also, how far would you need to travel to an airport to find an affordable air fare? It can be very revealing. Too often, people only check the August flight costs.</p>
<p>Some people find cheaper flights into Thurgood Marshall Baltimore Washington Airport, which is between DC and Baltimore. There is Amtrak train service from that airport to reach Cville. Also, National Airport in DC is on the metro system, and could be connected to Amtrak.</p>
<p>I honestly find the fares out of CHO to be very good. When you factor in the time and expense of traveling to other airports, CHO is very attractive. Going from the curb to the gate in 5-10 minutes is very nice, too. :)</p>
<p>“UVa students also have the option of applying for a joint bachelors-masters degree that can be completed 5 years.”</p>
<p>Just to add to the above, Batten also offers a 4-year MPP for those students who are able to complete their undergraduate major in 3 years. This option may be attractive to the student who enters with significant AP credits to cover core requirements and/or major prereqs.</p>
<p>^^^ thanks, Mom2Twins. That’s an interesting idea. DD has 5 AP’s so far, three more this year. (All 5’s on her tests so far.) So she’s racking up some pretty good credits. I know when I looked at W&M, I calculated that if she got 4’s or 5’s on her AP tests this year, she’d enter with about 30 credits, essentially entering as a sophomore. She wants to attend law school. I would think that getting a Masters in 4 years before applying to law school might give her a leg up on the competition.</p>
<p>There has been nothing officially posted on UVa websites about a 4 year Masters. I’d like to hear more. I was told a couple of years ago that the expectation was that students would have some AP credits in order to finish the Bachelors/Masters program in 5 years.</p>
<p>The amount of AP credits offered by various colleges varies greatly. UVa is tough in granting some credit (such as US History needs a 5), but does not restrict the maximum amount of AP credits than can be earned. Some other colleges do set a maximum. </p>
<p>Almost all UVa students arrive with AP credits (or comparable credits earned in high school). I was told that many students could graduate early, but choose not to, because they enjoy their time at UVa. As a result, UVa has a ton of undergrad students earning double majors. I think the U. would prefer that more of them switch over to a 5 years masters.</p>
<p>Another benefit of UVa’s accelerated MPP is that the student is considered a graduate student in his/her 4th year (or 5th) and electives for the program can be taken in the Law School, Darden, etc. There is also a decrease in tuition for grad students, currently about $13,000 less. Every little bit helps especially if you are OOS.</p>
<p>We were told at a Batten information session that an applicant for the 4-year program would complete the exact same process as the 5-year student, just one year early. So the undergrad major (non public policy) would need to be complete by the end of third year after which you would actually graduate from UVa, could walk and get your diploma, etc. In actuality, one would have only half of 3rd year to complete the undergrad major, because MPP classes are required that year as well. For the five year MPP, one’s 4th year must have capacity to take those same requirements (search on UVa website for list of requirements). For the 4-yr MPP, the required internship would happen between 3rd and 4th years; for the 5-yr MPP, the internship occurs between 4th and 5th years. List of past internships is also available online. Sorry I do not know how to link.</p>
<p>Application for the accelerated MPP takes place mid 2nd year for the 4-yr program and mid 3rd year for the 5-year MPP.</p>
<p>Clarification for grad school tuition information – in -state tuition actually increases for grad school but out-of-state students finally get a break of $13k.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info on the 4 year program. If a student would have 30 AP credits, it could work, but that is not extremely common. </p>
<p>For this year, oos grad Batten tuition increased $3K to $30K, which is $10K less than the $40K oos tuition for undergrad arts and sciences. </p>
<p>However, I understand many Batten grad students receive some form of fellowship (which might involve working with a prof on a research project).</p>
<p>With the 5 year program, a student is still treated as an undergrad in their 4th year and eligible for regular AccessUVa aid. It is important to note that only 2 public universities in the US promise to meet financial needs of out of state US students - UVa and UNC-Chapel Hill. Many other public universities look at oos students as cash cows.</p>
<p>I stand corrected on the tuition – did not see that Batten has a premium over Arts and Sciences. I still think $10k is a nice break that the OP may appreciate from CA.</p>
<p>I also think the word is spreading on the 4-year option. My daughter’s first-year hall of 18 girls has 2 who plan to pursue it, both with Economics majors. DD will have 41 AP credits to help – I suspect an increasing number of students are entering with similar numbers to the OP’s daughter. The value of being able to use so many AP credits was a deciding factor in my daughter choosing UVa over Vanderbilt, which allowed only 18 for non-engineering majors. I do not know W&M’s AP policy, but I second the opinion on the fun factor.</p>
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<p>Here:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/documents/AP-IB-A-Level%20Credit.pdf[/url]”>http://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/documents/AP-IB-A-Level%20Credit.pdf</a></p>
<p>I compared the AP credit charts on both UVA and W&M and they are similar if not identical. If DD scores at least a 4 on each of her 3 AP’s this year, she would enter with 31 credits. Plus she earned one college credit this summer at UCLA. If that transfers, she’d have 32. The Batten website says that you can enter the BA/MPP program starting in your third year if you have at least 90 credits by the end of your second year. So a student entering with 30+ credits through AP’s could take a full load of 30 credits per year the first two years and shorten the 5 year masters program to 4 years. That would be pretty cool to walk out of school after 4 years with a masters instead of a bachelor’s degree. (FYI, W&M does not appear to have a comparable program.) I will discuss further with DD.</p>
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<p>So would DD be treated as an undergrad in her third year (1st year Batten) and a grad student her fourth year (2nd year Batten)? Or an undergrad both years? (A 10k/year break for any year would definitely help. We’re not going to qualify for any FA.)</p>
<p>Still an undergrad 3rd year, but taking MPP courses. Considered grad student 4th year. Of course, for 5- year MPP add a year.</p>
<p>DGDzDad,</p>
<p>W&M does have a 5-year BA/MPP program, which provides the 5th year’s tuition and research stipends to high-achieving students. Based how you describe your daughter’s academic achievements, I’d say she stands a good shot at being named a Monroe Scholar (top 7% of admits), which would provide additional opportunities for research and course flexibility.</p>
<p>I too am a rising OOS senior who is considering UVA and W&M (among other schools) for public policy! Do you mind sharing the other schools on your daughter’s list?</p>
<p>@treeleaf -</p>
<p>I didn’t see that on W&M’s site. I’ll go back and look deeper. </p>
<p>Schools offering undergraduate degrees in public policy seem to be few and far between. My DD has been debating whether to major in poli sci, history, economics, or double-majoring. So I started to look at the inter-disciplinary majors that might appeal to her. In addition to the public policy programs at UVA and W&M, here’s what I found:</p>
<p>Princeton (super reach): Undergraduates can major in the Woodrow Wilson School. </p>
<p>UChicago (super reach): major in “Law, Letters, & Society” that appeals to her. </p>
<p>Penn (another reach): has a major in PPE - Philosophy, Politics, and Economics – that sounds interesting.</p>
<p>U Washington (low match/safety): inter-disciplinary major in Law, Societies, and Justice</p>
<p>UMass Amherst (safety): offers an undergraduate degree in “Social Thought and Political Economy”</p>
<p>It’s more like I’m taking schools that she’s interested in and then trying to find these kinds of majors. At other schools she is considering applying to she would probably study poli sci with a minor or double major in history or economics (Georgetown, Northwestern, Berkeley, UCLA).</p>
<p>What have you got on your list?</p>
<p>Regarding transportation issues to and from Charlottesville for a CA kid, I checked Expedia and she could fly from SFO to Charlottesville with only one stop, a 50-minute layover in Charlotte. Flight leaves SFO 7:25 am PT and arrives in Charlottesville at 5:35 p.m ET. Only 7 hours plus the 3-hour time change. That doesn’t sound too horrible. I didn’t check return flights yet.</p>