<p>Hello everybody. I've narrowed my decision down to UVA or W&M, and I need help. I just visited both campuses again this past week and it only made me more confused. I was wondering if anyone (preferably current or former students) could elaborate on the English and business departments for both schools? I know UVA traditionally does better in the rankings, but for obvious reasons I don't want to base my decision on those alone.</p>
<p>For what it's worth, I would be an Echols scholar at UVA and a Monroe scholar at W&M.</p>
<p>If you are a serious student of English, the presence of a top-ranked graduate program at UVA is a great advantage to you. The strongest English majors may apply for a 5 year BA/MA program that permits them to take graduate courses with MA and PhD students in their 4rth and 5th year. The graduate program also brings many events and speakers to grounds, and sponsors an annual conference; these are widely advertised and undergraduates are always welcome. It’s not possible for an undergraduate to “outgrow” the program at UVA, something I’ve seen happening for the best students at undergraduate-focused colleges.</p>
<p>smallrain, I mean that if you are an excellent student, by the time you’re in your last year of any curriculum you can be at the point of exhausting what it has to offer because you’re at the top of the heap. When this happens in high school, people take AP courses or college courses (for instance, this year my son has been taking college courses in his probable major in the morning, and finishing up his high school requirements in the afternoon.) When it happens at a big university, such a student can usually get permission to enroll in grad courses. I did so lo these many years ago when I was an undergrad at Cornell; those courses were a godsend intellectually, and gave me a clear and informed sense of whether or not I wanted to pursue a PhD in my field. At UVA the inclusion of selected undergrads into English Dept. grad courses has been regularized into a standard program. But if you are at a school that focuses mainly or entirely on undergraduate education, you don’t have that option. It’s not necessarily the end of the world, and it’s not going to matter if your interest in English is more casual, but it’s something to consider, and it’s not something that most high school seniors are likely to think about.</p>
<p>This would present something of a quandary for me as I deeply love both schools. The points mentioned above are all legitimate, and I was fortunate enough to take part in literary seminars at Virginia where we interacted with some famous names. </p>
<p>However, William & Mary is a very seductive place. I can’t think of anyplace else like it, by which I mean a traditional, almost courtly small-college environment (okay, medium-size, and the students *are *capable of cutting loose ;)) with high academic standards and (for the fortunate) in-state tuition rates. </p>
<p>What kind of environment do you like? That would make all the difference to me. UVA is a large state university, despite its endless pretensions, and W&M is vastly smaller, almost cloistered, in a much smaller town.</p>
<p>go where your heart feels lighter and you are sure the challenge level is tough enough</p>
<p>you really can’t lose here. </p>
<p>It is hard to ignore however that the B school at UVA beat Wharton in USNWR last year, and as an Echols Scholar, if you do well first year at Virginia…you would likely earn a chair in it.</p>
<p>Personally have the deepest regard for Wm and Mary and its community and access to a dedicated faculty is very high…which is a different experience due to smaller sized student body</p>
<p>you are basically choosing the fluidity of University of VA vs the intimacy of Wm and Mary…that is how I would look at it. My youngest son might have preferred the tighter feeling of Wm and Mary…the elder the broader feeling of UVA…</p>
<p>By and large, I don’t think it is wise to choose an undergraduate school for a specific department unless you are entering a professional program like engineering. At both UVA and W&M, you would enter business after two years. UVA is better rated in business (one of the top programs), but W&M is very good and has just opened a new building. I don’t think you should base your choice on English departments. Look at whether one of the schools is a better fit. Since you will be an Echol or Monroe scholar, you’ll have lots of flexibility to create your own curriculum and have more access to professors. W&M typically has better access, but the Echol’s scholarship may negate that advantage.</p>
<p>I think in terms of UVA a large state school, the comparison is from Virginia public schools. UVA and VT have large school opportunities that medium schools, such as WM wouldn’t not have. Large schools have larger sports programs, too.</p>
<p>W&M has more of an intellectual, academic experience. UVirginia has a great sports/greek/party scene. Depends on where you fit best. Do you want to be one of 5500 or one of 15000? Very big difference.</p>
<p>It’s true and yet, UVA never really felt that big to me. I mean, obviously the Grounds are extensive, but you find your niche, the parts of the University that you frequent, and the scale of the place in particular is almost like a liberal-arts college, I mean the Lawn, Ranges, McCormick, Brown etc. </p>
<p>Only a couple of times did I have classes that were *not * held somewhere in the Cabell Hall - Rugby Road axis. A couple science classes …I never set foot on North Grounds once, and in 3-1/2 years I only had a couple of classes with more than 30-40 people. Quite the contrary, I most had fewer than 20. And a musicology course in Old Cabell Hall, overlooking the Lawn It’s a wonder I got any work done in that class!</p>
<p>Sorry to ramble a bit! The main point is that yes, it’s much larger than William & Mary, but you have no trouble finding your niche and at no time does Virginia *ever *feel like a factory on the order of Penn State, Ohio State etc. Just as important, otoh, it’s large enough that you’ll never run out of things to do, day or night, and that *is *an occasional complaint against W&M.</p>
<p>True, its not Penn State, but its not W&M either. Two very different schools. If they werent in the same state, there would be very little overlap in applicants. Similar fluke of geography like Duke/UNC or Stanford/Cal or Rice/Texas</p>
…I never set foot on North Grounds once, and in 3-1/2 years I only had a couple of classes with more than 30-40 people. Quite the contrary, I most had fewer than 20. And a musicology course in Old Cabell Hall, overlooking the Lawn 
It’s a wonder I got any work done in that class!</p>