<p>Where would you guies go if you got admitted to both colleges.
And for UVA economics major, are science courses mandatory? Thanks!</p>
<p>all i know is that the low academic level of OOS applicants that Michigan is letting in this year kind of tarnishes the school for me....IMHO i think that UVA is much more respectable</p>
<p>I'm probably gonna get a lot of flack for what I'm about to say, but there are several notable negatives about Michigan that are remarkably relevant when compared to UVA, IMO. Of course this is an extremely biased site to ask such a question.</p>
<p>But, since you asked it, I'd start with the weather. Ann Arbor is at about Zero degrees right now and even goes into negative digits on a fairly regular basis. Next, it's soooooooo big, too big, IMHO it becomes a mass education institute and a diploma factory. Next, I agree with The Barron in that they admit a whole lot of OOS kids>>>with stats that one would question. It makes me really concerned about the IS students that get in at U of M. I have a relative there who took 2 AP's in their entire HS course and got B's in them>>nothing special, actually sort of embarrassing, poor SAT's, awful, who is there. "A-squared" is a cool town, but there is little history (except Bo and Gerald Ford), it's very flat, cold, huge. Not my scene. I'm sure it is fun and great on it's own level, but I think UVA is superior.</p>
<p>I love UVA! Biased of course, I'm from OOS to UVA. I didn't even apply to the U of M though. Here I love the smaller nature of the University, the history, the most gorgeous grounds-anywhere, IMO, the mountains, the warmer weather. I've had very individualized classes, with unique themes, though some of the basic Freshman classes have been big, but manageable. It seems like year after year, UVA maintains it's hold on being the 2nd best public university in the country, and I think it just might re-secure it's place in the #1 position soon. UVA is very highly selective, IS and OOS. Very classy.</p>
<p>They are both great schools, but I just couldn't see myself at U of M. That's just me.</p>
<p>I disagree. Several excellent students I know have been deferred from Michigan this year. Check out the Michigan threads on CC. Stats of accepted OOS students are high on the average.</p>
<p>I have to admit, that our squirrels are wimps, and freakishly normal compared to the unique Sci-Fi breed that's notorious to AA.
Michigan's a great school, this isn't personal. It's a little bit like comparing apples and oranges.<br>
I, for one, love UVA>>that's just me. THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN behind anyone's name, with good stats, will take one far in life. So will the UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA.
I have a bias for my home school of UVA. Lovin' it here in CVL, Mr. Jefferson's grounds!!!</p>
<p>
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all i know is that the low academic level of OOS applicants that Michigan is letting in this year kind of tarnishes the school for me....IMHO i think that UVA is much more respectable
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<p>LOL!!! don't make such a statement if you don't know your facts! Have you even glanced at the Mich boards? On this small site alone, there were kids with 33 ACT, 2340 SAT, and 2270 SAT who were deferred OOS. And a 31 ACT deferred IS. And you think its stats are sub-par? Perhaps slightly to Princeton or Harvard, but they match up well with any university in the country. As for UVA, I will definitely not argue against its academic rep, but "much more respectable" is simply false and inaccurate. That's like saying Harvard is "much more respectable" than Princeton. To whom? (And I am not a student at either school, btw).</p>
<p>Here is what I noticed when I visited the schools (and a few mentioned it above, but this is not the thread to ask your Q on; I'd take it to the general admissions link to get a more unbiased perspective if I were you):</p>
<p>Michigan: First of all, as powderpuff said, both are very even academically. They are certainly overlap schools for many applicants, in that many people apply, and are accepted to, both. Michigan is very, very large. About 40,000 students, to be more precise. As a result, class lectures may seem impersonal at first, and realistically, your professors won't know you by name until your upper-division courses. That being said, it is a world-renowned research university. JFK called Harvard the "Michigan of the East" (how's that for academic rep?), Salk announced his polio vaccine here, and JFK unveiled his PeaceCorps vision on the steps of the library. So whoever doubts history and tradition perhaps has not put the time into researching it. It's really a personal choice whether you like a large school (for me, one over 12,000 was a must), as is the weather. People assured me that all you have to do is learn to layer; though it was stated that it often reaches the negative numbers, in all actuality it rarely dips below 15 (though obviously still very cold), and does not get the outright brutal winters that N.Michigan does (again, it does get heavy snow though, so be prepared for that). My cousin is from Newport Beach, went to Michigan, loved it, and now lives in Vermont. So she was unfazed by the winter. Then again, some people can't handle cold weather, so I would best advise them not to attend. Michigan's grounds are not as stunning as UVA's, but the law-quad is beautiful, and Ann Arbor was a very clean, friendly college town. The people were very laid-back and eager to help. My admissions rep did call me twice to make sure I was applying, which speaks volumes for a school of that size (I had never met her before, either). And, as powderpuff stated, the massive squirrels were quite entertaining. Not to mention The Big House, capacity 107, 501 (and expanding!)...Michigan sports and school spirit simply cannot be beat.</p>
<p>Virginia: I loved UVA. The campus was stunning, and the history and tradition behind it were prevalent everywhere. I loved the state as well, it was just beautiful in every way, at least the part that I saw lol. And obviously the academics are top-notch. The only complaint I had against the school was just that the admissions process seemed really political to me; perhaps it was simply because I am used to the UC system, where everyone applies on an equal basis, legacies aren't included, and they don't care what high school you're from, etc. I dunno, it seemed like we spent over half the info session with kids just asking what percent UVA admits from which prep school, whether they admit more from N. VA, or S. VA, how much being a legacy/booster counts, and then the admissions rep (sorry, don't remember his name), basically stated that if you didn't have the scores they want, that was it. Unless they were really interested, then they would look further into it. But, for example, they want 5 years of a foreign language. My hs only offers 3 years of Spanish, then AP Spanish. When I called to ask how I was supposed to meet this requirement, the admissions rep acted like it should be oh-so obvious: "All the private schools here have 5 years!" My bad, I should have known....But again, overall I loved Virginia. That was just my own experience, and just like Mich students have assured me that the weather isn't too bad, so have the UVA students calmed my fears about its preppy-ness and atmosphere. They are both very unique, elite universities, and either one will be a great choice that you surely will not regret. It all comes down to what type of environment you like. Good luck!</p>
<p>ha, sorry, i kinda wrote a lot i guess. i tried to be unbiased though!</p>
<p>vc08, you wrote a nice summary of your impressions of both of these elite universities.
5 years of foreign language? I didn't have 5 years of language. I had 3 years. I went to an OOS fairly large public HS. UVA does expect competitive "scores", but I think that the adcom really does look at the entire individual, more so than some other universities, and that's one reason why so much emphasis is placed on the essays.
FWIW, it is 7 degrees F in AA right now (with wind effect, they say it feels like -21 degrees), it will reach a high of 19 degrees. It's 46 degrees in CVL right now and will reach a high of 49 degrees. I have Accuweather for CVL e-mailed to me every day, just for the heck of it. If you are truly considering Michigan for the next four years, you might want to consider following the weather there on a daily basis, because I think you'll find that it dips below 15 degrees often. 15 degrees is warm in AA!!
Bottom line, they are both great schools. Both unique in their own ways.</p>
<p>"LOL!!! don't make such a statement if you don't know your facts! Have you even glanced at the Mich boards? On this small site alone, there were kids with 33 ACT, 2340 SAT, and 2270 SAT who were deferred OOS. And a 31 ACT deferred IS. And you think its stats are sub-par?"</p>
<p>You must be right....I guess I don't know my facts. But I do know one fact, the fact that 8-12 kids from my large public school have been admitted to UMich with easy course-loads and average SAT scores (<1300). In addition you referred to CC as a "small site" and that is just what it is...a group of small super-motivated students venting to the faceless public, and as a result you are bound to hear countless sob stories of students with superior scores being rejected/deferred...my guess is that in those cases, you only know half the story.</p>
<p>As a senior in high school I have been working diligently for the last 4 years and have applied to numerous prestigious schools across America, of which UVA, and UMich are included. Having recently gained acceptance to UMich I was initially excited to have somewhere to go next year, but as the acceptances rolled in for more and more students and the academic level of these students continued to decline....it significantly discounted my accomplishment. I feel that if I were to go to Michigan it would certainly be tarnished by the fact that all of my subpar classmates would be going along with me. If i could have put forward a significantly less effort in the last four years and attended the same university I certainly would have. But the fact of the matter is I have worked to the best of my abilities and for that reason I find the appeal of UMich to be significantly less at this point. The question to this thread was if admitted to both where would you go....in my opinion I would 100% go to UVA.</p>
<p>"Michigan: First of all, as powderpuff said, both are very even academically."--vc08</p>
<p>Just to set the record straight, I never did make the above statement. Nor, do I believe it. I agree with The Barron; in answering the question of this thread, I'd recommend UVA 100% as well. JFK's remarks are complimentary to MI, but didn't he say them on a visit to U of M? Davidson has been called the Harvard of the South....on and on. That is a far cry from the history and foundation of Thomas Jefferson's dream of public education and his Academical Village at UVA. TJ designed HIS UNIVERSITY, and his spirit is very much alive today. Now, that really means something to me>>but that's just me. Some people, I'm sure, couldn't give a hoot, but to be honest, almost all students that I've met, are very respectful of Mr. Jefferson. We still talk about him like he's in the next room!
I echo the same concerns that the Barron posted about U of M's selectivity. It's a huge university and they've got to fill it somehow. Please don't take this personally. This is, admittedly, a biased forum in regards to the initial question.
Oh and it is 16 degrees F in AA right now (feels like -8 degrees F), and will hit a low of 8 degrees F tonight. Students better layer up! Sorry in advance, couldn't resist.</p>
<p>On the Kennedy theme, Robert F. Kennedy and Edward Kennedy went to Law school at UVA. Woodrow Wilson attended Law school, but withdrew due to health issues.
Of course, there are many other notables who attended The University. Edgar Allen Poe is one of the most notable and was a frequent visitor to Monteciello; he attended TJ's funeral. And there was Georgia O'Keefe, Katie Couric, Tina Fey, and Clarence Thomas (CLAS and LAW>>go figure?) just to list a few others.</p>
<p>hmmmm. It's spelled Monticello.</p>
<p>If you are admitted to both, then a visit to each campus will certainly enable you to answer your own question. Since you are an international student applying from Japan and, therefore, may not be able to visit before enrolling, Virginia is probably the better choice. Both are excellent universities, but Virginia is more difficult regarding non-resident admissions, is a beautiful and smaller, less crowded campus, located in one of the most naturally attractive states, and has a mild climate. The state of Michigan is somewhat economically depressed and has a harsh climate during the winter months. Also, Michigan may be too big.</p>
<p>Thanks guillaume, I did hesitate before I hit the "i" key, but what the hey, I did. Next time, I'll do it right for Mr. Jefferson's sake. Sorry TJ. I was thinking: Monte (mountain) and cielo (heaven/sky). Wrong thinking.
Monticello>>got it!</p>
<p>TheBarron: Well I can't help you if your superiority complex overshadows your desire to attend a specific college. There's a reason Michigan and Virginia have been tied for the past several years in terms of best national universities. If UVA is accepting superior candidates and yet they are tied, that should speak wonders for what Michigan is able to do with the low level of applicants you say they accept. I never pretended to know the entire story. Just like I don't know the entire story behind my friend being accepted OOS to UVA last year with a 1210/1600 SAT. Perhaps your friends' acceptances should illuminate the individual attention Michigan gives its applicants; whether you choose to believe it or not, they were accepted for a reason. Just like UVA accepted my friend for a reason. I'm glad I'm able to look at what the university offers as a whole; otherwise, I'd just go to Berkeley, which accepts "superior" students to UVA, and according to you, Michigan. They have a lower acceptance rate (23%), and therefore MUST be better, right? The same would therefore apply to UCLA. Shoot, I should just save myself UVA's OOS tuition!</p>
<p>Powderpuff: Funny, my cousin just emailed me and said the thermometer outside her dorm on the Michigan campus reads 23 degrees. I think I'll trust people who live in the immediate area, rather than a different region, for weather advice (not to be blunt, but would you rather listen to someone sitting at their computer in Dallas, or going to school in Los Angeles, for weather info on USC)? Also, the cold is definitely a defining aspect of Michigan's campus, for better or worse. But as Bo said, "those who stay will be champions." Those who can brave Michigan's weather will truly learn how to prevail against challenges.</p>
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THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN behind anyone's name, with good stats, will take one far in life. So will the UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA.
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Sounds like you're putting them on a pretty even playing field to me.</p>
<p>I think it's kinda sad that you UVA students think so less of Michigan though. There have been similar threads on the Michigan forum (e.g. UNC vs UM), and Michigan students were much more friendly toward UNC than you are towards Michigan. This is exactly what concerns me about attending UVA; am I going to be living with a group of students who think that they are far superior to anyone else? Obviously UVA is an excellent school, with extraordinary tradition and scholars. But it is increasingly obvious that some people are pretty pretentious as well. I realize you are going to try and sell your school. But to take everything away from another great institution in order to do it is simply classless. UVA has many great selling points that do not require questioning the respectability of a great entering class at Michigan.</p>
<p>PowderPuff,
Not bad thinking though. But yeah, It means little mountain in Italian.</p>
<p>vc08:
U of M is a great, GREAT, school!!! I have major respect for the U of M. I didn't tell you something about me, but my Dad did his medical training at the U of M (Pediatrics). He loved it and he has so many wonderful things to say about the U of M, and AA.
It is really cold there, but he says, if you have a good coat, gloves you will be fine. It might be a winter-wonder-land, but that's nice!
UVA isn't stuffy, it is good too, and has so many wonderful qualities, but MICHIGAN rocks!!!</p>
<p>Both schools are great. I simply believe in giving credit where credit is due. And, in this case, it belongs to 2 great, elite institutions.</p>
<p>Exactly! Well spoken!</p>
<p>vc08,</p>
<p>Don't make too much of the admissions session you attended. The tone of those sessions depends a lot on what kind of kids show up that day. My S and I attended an info session over a holiday weekend. About 80% of the kids there were OOS, taking advantage of the three day weekend to travel. As you might guess, the questions were nothing like what you heard. They were much more about how much harder it was for OOS, how much higher the SATs were, etc.</p>
<p>The NOVA vs Virginia thing (NOVA = Northern Virginia) is just a big issue right now. The metro area of D.C. has grown fantastically, and the families there tend to be very well educated and have smart kids. So over time the admissions have tended to be more heavily NOVA, and the rest of the state has concerns about that.</p>
<p>Michigan has some similar issues with Southeast MI vs the rest of the state. Maybe even a better comparison would be how the Upper Peninsula (UP) folks often feel left out or slighted on state issues. Just part of the landscape and there is nothing you can do about it.</p>
<p>And they won't require 5 years of language. You should be cool there.</p>
<p>I agree they are both great places. UVA certainly has a more focused history and tradition centered around Jefferson. But UM is nearer to a major city and a major airport. It costs a fortune to fly in and out of C'ville. But it IS @#^& cold here in Detroit right now. Getting several inches of snow tomorrow and it is 10 degrees at the moment.</p>